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hard starting, need some input tonight

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1980 GS1000G....Figures, weekend plans with the bike and it's having 'issues'. The other day I was out for the day, 300+ kms, runs great but when I go to start it it was hard starting, not it's usual one touch start up. I can hear a 'whiring' noise coming from somewhere up front, starter area, maybe engine area. It started doing it lightly but the later in the day it got the harder it was to start. It does finally catch but it's as if something is 'tight' or hard to turn over. There's no strange engine noise once it starts and runs perfectly for hours. I thought it was a going battery as the one in there was old but put a brand new one in today and it's just as bad or maybe even a bit worse, but I am trying to start from sitting for a week. I'm thinking, "hoping" it's just the starter because I have at least 10 others here to replace it but any suggestions would be appreciated. Like I said we're supposed to be going off for the weekend with her in the morning.
 
Couldn't hurt to try changing the starter as a means of eliminating it as the cause of the whiring noise. Labored starting and a noise while cranking makes me think of bad brushes in the motor.

That I would say is a good starting point.
 
Thanks Dale, I did replace the starter with a good known one out of my 78' 1000 and no difference. Even when the engine is warm, shut if off a a few seconds and it does the same thing. I can make it start a lot faster if I use the choke of course but it's very strange, it makes a noise like something is tight while trying to slowly turn over, eventually it does catch and start. Pulled the plugs and colour still looks great, nice and tan and like I said it runs smooth. Oil was a tich low but topped that up. The bike has been running perfectly for 5000km since the last top end rebuild. I know it's time to check the valve clearances but I don't believe they would be 'this tight', not all of a sudden like that, one minute it's starting perfectly the next I get this.
 
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Nobody else? I did check the starter relay connections but everything is tight. I have not thrown a compression gauge on the bike yet but the last time I did it was at 140 across all 4 ,+/- 2, can't imagine that's changed too much.
 
Is the engine cranking slowly, or is the problem that you have to crank for a long time before it starts? And noise while cranking, but not while running? If the engine starts faster when the choke is pulled that suggests a mixture issue. Maybe the airbox seals are getting loose and false air is entering the system? Have the valves been checked lately? Bike all stock or modified?
 
What about the connector gear between starter and starter clutch. Wear? Washer between the gear and case getting chewed up? The hole in the case the gear shaft fits into is not showing wear signs??? The shaft itself isnt excessively worn???
 
Nessism said:
Is the engine cranking slowly, or is the problem that you have to crank for a long time before it starts? And noise while cranking, but not while running? If the engine starts faster when the choke is pulled that suggests a mixture issue. Maybe the airbox seals are getting loose and false air is entering the system? Have the valves been checked lately? Bike all stock or modified?
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This is my 80' 1000G Ed, she's bone stock and rebuilt one end to the other. The engine cranks over slowly and I can hear a noise, hard to explain but it almost sounds like something is tight, like a piston is tight or something. It's not a 'nasty' metal sound but just that something metal is slowly moving. When it fires and runs, no noise of any kind. Actually this engine is one of the quietest I've had. I do need to do the valves again, probably 5000kms since the last valve job. I'll check the airbox but can't imagine there's anything wrong in there. It started a 'bit' better this morning, by better I mean faster. It always catches but some times it can be after 5-8 rotations of this slow moving sound thing. Other times it flashes right up on the first hit of the button.
 
chuck hahn said:
What about the connector gear between starter and starter clutch. Wear? Washer between the gear and case getting chewed up? The hole in the case the gear shaft fits into is not showing wear signs??? The shaft itself isnt excessively worn???
Click to expand...

Chuck, I had to go into the stator cover a couple of times after the rebuild because the main bolt came loose (it's not now and have done over 5000km on it since then) everything in there looked fine. It's weird though. The bike has been running perfectly then all of a sudden the other day this issue started. It seems like I'll make it over the weekend but I'll have to start pulling stuff apart when I get back home. Valves first I suppose.
 
Sounds like low battery voltage Rob. Slow turn over means either the starter is weak, low voltage to the starter, or the engine has excess cranking friction. Since the engine runs perfectly I doubt that is the problem.
 
If it's cranking slowly with a second motor I would suspect the earth lead and the power lead from the starter relay. Try a jump start taking the earth directly from the engine case and the power feed directly to the motor post ( mind the sparks :) ). The big leads can look good but conceal corrosion near the crimps. Same goes for the connections at the relay itself.
 
And you can take the battery completely out and use jumper cables from the truck. If the cycle battery is out of the loop and it cranks normally from the truck battery, your problem is the bikes battery being weak. Dont have the truck running..just jump from the truck to the bikes battery leads.

If the bikes battery is indeed weak, then recheck the bikes charging system again to see if it has lost charging power since you last checked the system.
 
Well me and co-pilot were gone for the weekend on the bike with a few friends. Sometimes it would slowly crank making this odd 'tight' sound, other times it would make the sound for a second or two and fire up, other times no sound and would fire up the second you hit the start button and there was no pattern to when it did it. Very odd. The speraticness of it makes me thing connection problem. I'll try your suggestions Brendan before I pull the valve cover and check the valves. I don't have to worry about the main positive lead as I had to make a new, longer one when I put in a new battery on Friday, that's what I thought was the problem when this all started to happened. I wonder if there's a problem with the starter relay?
 
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azr said:
I wonder if there's a problem with the starter relay?
Click to expand...

Could be. Problem with old electrical systems is that sometimes there is no smoking gun and an issue is the cumulative effect of bad connections everywhere. Opening and cleaning every post and terminal from batt +ve and back will only help and if it doesn't sort it at least they are eliminated from the enquiry.
 
Brendan W said:
Could be. Problem with old electrical systems is that sometimes there is no smoking gun and an issue is the cumulative effect of bad connections everywhere.
Click to expand...
I think Brendan W is probably right. Since the negative for the starter motor is the ground from the battery to the transmission case I would look for lurking corrosion in the main ground terminal lugs. They can corrode and wire strands break while they look fine from the outside. At any rate it's time to chase down those problems by cleaning with contact cleaner and coating with dielectric grease every electrical contact point on the bike, grounds, fuse box, switches (best done in a clear plastic bag so small parts and springs are not lost), bullet connectors and plugs. As stated, cumulative high contact resistances can having you chasing your tail big time.
 
This bike was a frame up restoration about 10'000-12'000 kms ago including wire harness gone thru but I'll definitely be going after every ground cable and pulling the relay.
 
Try sandwiching your ground connections with star washers, seems to maintain good contact a lot longer.
 
Well I've replace and cleaned the starter relay, cleaned the fuse panel, checked the connections at the relay, starter, fuse box, etc..etc.. everything looks fine. Voltage to the starter relay is good, drops to 9.5V when trying to start but that's identical on my other bike and that thing starts amazingly quick. Here's a video of the sound.


any other ideas??
 
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