Head Gasket differences

[eddypeck]

I'm looking to replace my Head Gasket on my GS1000G.

I have looked up the part number to be 11141-49410 and it's listed that that replaces 11141-49002.

I'm only interested in Genuine Suzuki parts ...

looking up the part numbers and searching for Genuine parts I've found the following images

and

all claiming to be genuine.

Can anyone explain why some appear to be smooth and others are indented? And which is better if any?

 

[Frank Z.]

Two sides of same coin. One side is textured, other side smooth.

 

[eddypeck]

Oh that's OK then. Feeling a but stupid now, but thanks for clarifying.

 

[Frank Z.]

Oh that's OK then. Feeling a but stupid now, but thanks for clarifying.

No stupid questions, eddy... only stupid answers. Do note however, that the gaskets pictured are not the same, as indicated by different sizes of stud holes and cam chain tunnel. Always buy OEM/NOS from reputable sources.

 

[Nessism]

The first photo shows the original type composite gasket that uses rubber seal insert pieces on the corner studs and around the cam chain opening.

The second photo shows the latest MLS gasket that superseded the older part numbers. No rubber seals needed.

 

[Frank Z.]

The first photo shows the original type composite gasket that uses rubber seal insert pieces on the corner studs and around the cam chain opening.

The second photo shows the latest MLS gasket that superseded the older part numbers. No rubber seals needed.

Good point, Ed. I was under the impression that the corner stud openings (top photo) were oversized because of some type of oil galley or something; any clarification on this?

 

[Nessism]

Good point, Ed. I was under the impression that the corner stud openings (top photo) were oversized because of some type of oil galley or something; any clarification on this?

Yes Frank, oil flows up the four corner studs. Apparently the MLS type gasket seals well, to the point where Suzuki felt there is no need for the separate seals anymore. The gasket surfaces need to be clean and smooth though. The older type composite gaskets were more tolerant of a poor metal surface finish.

 

[eddypeck]

Hmmm...

I had info in an email from Steve and he kindly gave me a list of what I need, as well as some other information on jobs I might want to tackle while it's apart. I've cross-referenced what Steve said with the parts manual (linked on here somewhere) and have managed to put part numbers against it all

head gasket (1) - 11141-49410 (replaces 11141-49002)
base gasket (1) - 11241-49401-H17
o-rings for bottoms of cylinders (4) - 09280-74002
o-rings for base gasket (2) (change in base gasket design might eliminate these) - 09280-21004
o-ring for cam chain tunnel (1) - 09280-99003
valve seals (16) - 09289-07002
cylinder head cover gasket (1) - 11173-49004-H17 (replaces 11173-49002)
breather cover gasket (1) - 11177-47001-H17 (replaces 11177-47001)

I've priced up all of the gaskets from Suzuki and the total came to about ?350 (about 462.45 US Dollar).

I gather I need genuine head and base gaskets and the rest can be aftermarket which will reduce the overall cost but I'm struggling to find parts in the UK other than direct from Suzuki dealers.

I've found a few overseas listings on eBay claiming to have the above NOS OEM parts but now I'm doubting the actual part numbers and wondering if the savings are worth the gamble.

The head gasket alone is ?102. But getting new old stock from eBay could save me around ?40, but there's the gamble it won't be what it says it is.

I've heard bad things about the Athena kits, but that's about all I'm able to find. If I get an Athena kit but use genuine head and base gaskets, will the rest of the kit be OK or are all the seals bad in these .... any UK members able to help me out???

Not wanting to skimp on quality, but would like to save a few quid if possible.

 

[eddypeck]

Yes Frank, oil flows up the four corner studs. Apparently the MLS type gasket seals well, to the point where Suzuki felt there is no need for the separate seals anymore. The gasket surfaces need to be clean and smooth though. The older type composite gaskets were more tolerant of a poor metal surface finish.

So if I went with the top one and used the oil seals, I could get away without getting the parts skimmed? not sure I need to yet as not got it apart but just thinking ahead and trying to gather all the info an can before I start.

This will be my first rebuild, I want to get it right.

 

[Nessism]

Your engine has 8 valve stem seals. Aftermarket Viton seals are one of the few aftermarket parts that are better than OEM (at least the ones available in the USA).

You NEED OEM base gasket rubber seals (2). These are egg shaped. The 4 O-rings that go around the cylinders can be recycled and reused from before. They are of questionable value anyway.

If you get the MLS type head gasket you don't use the cam chain tunnel rectangular O-ring.

NEVER use Athena gaskets. Period.

 

[DimitriT]

Question on the cylinder o-rings: is the intent to prevent oil from soaking up into some adhesion layer between the cylinder sleeve and the aluminum block? I know the sleeve is clamped from the top and is not going anywhere.

 

[Nessism]

Question on the cylinder o-rings: is the intent to prevent oil from soaking up into some adhesion layer between the cylinder sleeve and the aluminum block?

Yes.

The cylinder liners were selectively fit to the cylinder itself to assure just the right amount of press fit when cold. Suzuki used a color coding system between the parts almost the same way main and rod bearings are selectively fit on plain bearing engines.

When hot the liners will just fall out of the aluminum cylinder part and the O-ring is to keep oil from wicking upward into the gap and possibly penetrating the outside of the engine through porosity in the casting.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

So if I went with the top one and used the oil seals, I could get away without getting the parts skimmed? not sure I need to yet as not got it apart but just thinking ahead and trying to gather all the info an can before I start.

This will be my first rebuild, I want to get it right.

First are you talking about old oil seals that fit in the head gasket using old stuff does have its risks you have to weigh up the effort and cost to do the job then find out you have the do it again (costly)
I have done what you are planning in 2016 you could save by re-using the cylinder orings the cam cover gasket could be Athena (about half price) if you use the MLS cylinder gasket you would not need the cam tunnel oring if you can find an Athena cam breather gasket get one or thing is missing off the list is a cam chain tentioner gasket, if you don't go Oem for the head gasket make sure the seals that go in the gasket comes with it I have seen quite a few VESRAH on fleabay but they never have the seals, and VESRAH seal do not fit inside the gasket like suzuki ones they are placed on top of the gasket and compressed.
have you looked here https://www.discountbikespares.co.uk/ourshop/cat_511122-GS850.html
usually a bit cheaper than a main dealer
if you are handy there is flexoid gasket paper on fleabay and you can make your own breather and cam tentioner gasket your self.

 

[kochic]

I switched to a MLS gasket on my gs1000-1100.Everything is dry but the head was skimmed a little and the cylinder had .100" removed.I started with new mating surface.
I have 3 fiber head gasket here that I will not use.
2 NOS suzuki and one unknown aftermarket
I can trade one or all for old streetfighters magazines.
Marc