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head gasket leak

  • Thread starter Thread starter shibby_cbs
  • Start date Start date
If you read Ed's (Waterman) post correctly it states washers not seals. And I think he is talking about the copper crush washers that go directly under the head acorn nuts.

Also on the subject of egg shape "O" rings, they sit under the base gasket on the 650 motor and there is no cutout in the base gasket for them. But they seal between the base gasket and the crankcase and the oil is forced up the cavity around the head studs to the top end. The hole in the base gasket is round and over size, but not oval shaped as on the 550 motor. I elongated the hole partially to allow more oil to flow to the cylinder head. I have no leaks so far.
 
Suzuki_Don said:
If you read Ed's (Waterman) post correctly it states washers not seals. And I think he is talking about the copper crush washers that go directly under the head acorn nuts.

Also on the subject of egg shape "O" rings, they sit under the base gasket on the 650 motor and there is no cutout in the base gasket for them. But they seal between the base gasket and the crankcase and the oil is forced up the cavity around the head studs to the top end. The hole in the base gasket is round and over size, but not oval shaped as on the 550 motor. I elongated the hole partially to allow more oil to flow to the cylinder head. I have no leaks so far.
Click to expand...

yes i have the copper crush washers installed...but at this point it dosnt really matter...the bike is gonna have to be completly dissasembled for the umteenth time and another lump of money is gonna have to be spent on something i have already bought once before...i really hope i can get some kind of refund on the gasket kit i purchased from those guys but im not holdin my breath
 
Sorry for my bad advice. I've never torn down a 650 before.

The parts fishe doesn't show any O-rings that go on the base gasket for the 650G (shaft) but they do for the chain drive E model. A bit strange...but the engines are different so maybe not.

Neither model shows seals for the studs supplementing the head gasket. I doubt your gasket kit requires them.

Regarding the problem at hand, my guess is the base gasket crushed down, head gasket too, and when you put a wrench on the stud nuts you will find them dead loose. Try torquing them back down to spec and see if the leak abates. You are most likely going to have attack the problem fairly soon but maybe not right away.
 
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Nessism said:
Sorry for my bad advice. I've never torn down a 650 before.

The parts fishe doesn't show any O-rings that go on the base gasket for the 650G (shaft) but they do for the chain drive E model. A bit strange...but the engines are different so maybe not.

Neither model shows seals for the studs supplementing the head gasket. I doubt your gasket kit requires them.

Regarding the problem at hand, my guess is the base gasket crushed down, head gasket too, and when you put a wrench on the stud nuts you will find them dead loose. Try torquing them back down to spec and see if the leak abates. You are most likely going to have attack the problem fairly soon but maybe not right away.
Click to expand...

i went to retorque the nuts last night and they were still within spec...i am going to take them all completly loose tonight and retorque them to spec and maybe a little over to see if anything changes...base gasket seems fine and dandy but i am concernd about the o-rings...if i do need them running the bike would risk ruining the cams but if i dont them im fine....until i know for sure i dont feel good about running the bike....is there any way to test if the oil is flowing correctly to the head?...does anybody know for sure if my particular bike requires the o-rings?...and hey dont worry about missin a little bit on the advice...nobody knows everything...thanks for takin the time to help tho...i wanna get on this thing and ride sooooooo bad
 
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OK. "MY BAD",

As the "E" and "G" motors have different oil pumps, they also have different oiling systems. Your "G" model does NOT require the egg shape "O" rings. The "G" has a high pressure oil pump and the "E" has a high volume oil pump. Because of the high pressure oil pump the oil will have no trouble getting up to the cams and valves.

Sorry for my misinformation. I got a bit confused because I used a "G" gasket set on my 550/650 conversion and thought both motors had the egg shape "O" ring. Although if you had put them in by mistake I'm sure they would not have caused a problem.

BTW both the "G" and the "E" use the same base gasket, only the "O" ring is different.

If you want to check if oil is getting to the top end just remove your tacho cable while the motor is running, but make sure you are wearing "old" clothes. I found this out when I started my motor after the complete rebuild after 2 1/2 years off the road. I knew I would forget something in my eagerness to hear it run again.
 
Suzuki_Don said:
OK. "MY BAD",

As the "E" and "G" motors have different oil pumps, they also have different oiling systems. Your "G" model does NOT require the egg shape "O" rings. The "G" has a high pressure oil pump and the "E" has a high volume oil pump. Because of the high pressure oil pump the oil will have no trouble getting up to the cams and valves.

Sorry for my misinformation. I got a bit confused because I used a "G" gasket set on my 550/650 conversion and thought both motors had the egg shape "O" ring. Although if you had put them in by mistake I'm sure they would not have caused a problem.

BTW both the "G" and the "E" use the same base gasket, only the "O" ring is different.

If you want to check if oil is getting to the top end just remove your tacho cable while the motor is running, but make sure you are wearing "old" clothes. I found this out when I started my motor after the complete rebuild after 2 1/2 years off the road. I knew I would forget something in my eagerness to hear it run again.
Click to expand...

so you are sayin that if i disconnect the tac cable and start the motor oil should come squirtin out?...maybe somethin like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bm7utZR4Yo

and as far as running the bike as is in the current condition is it ok?...what am i risking if anything
 
shibby_cbs said:
so you are sayin that if i disconnect the tac cable and start the motor oil should come squirtin out?...maybe somethin like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bm7utZR4Yo

and as far as running the bike as is in the current condition is it ok?...what am i risking if anything
Click to expand...

It won't be quite as bad as that video, as excess oil will run back down the cam chain tunnel. It will just spray out the front of the valve cover a bit. As another option, just take out the 16 or 17 x 6mm bolts holding the valve cover in place and remove the valve cover (only 10 mins. work) and you will see all the cavities in the top of the head filled up with oil, especially the ones at either end of the exhaust camshaft, they will be full to overflowing with oil if everything is working as it should.

Do as Ed said about loosening, then tightening the head nuts to the torque he suggested and go ride it and see if it still leaks. You will not do any harm.
 
i deffinately will do that...but tomorrow....you guys said it should be ok to take her out and thats exactly what i did...took her for a 20 min cruise down a back road at 55 and it was great...it gave me a whole new motivation for this bike...now i know why i am working so hard on this thing...when i pulled back in the garage i took a look at the gasket again and it looked the same...a little bubbling in a couple spots but nothing major.
 
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im having the same problem with my 1980 gs850gl leaking too is the torquing the same in mine as well anyone know or know what mine needs to be torqed too ??
 
jtrip said:
im having the same problem with my 1980 gs850gl leaking too is the torquing the same in mine as well anyone know or know what mine needs to be torqed too ??
Click to expand...

I think your 850 should be 30 lb/ft or 27lb/ft to be exact
 
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shibby_cbs said:
corner washers huh?....cant say i really know what the heck you are talkin about. but when i get home i will be sure to see what i got left in the bag...if anybody has pictures or anything to help me out that would be great...also had somethin on my mind that i have been thinking/worrying about...with my gasket kit came two o-rings in the shape of an egg. it looked to me as if they would go somewhere around the two what looked like oil ports/jets near cylander 1 and cylander 4 on the cases...but the clymer manual made no mention of them and i didnt see any on there when i first took the bike apart and didnt really even see where they could go...just wonderin if any of you guys know what they may be for
Click to expand...

Check here for corner stud washers.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=123898

These are Suzuki OEM gaskets, on top is a head gasket for 550. It is hard to tell but all of these gaskets have the corner washers. I used the gasket on right with the flat washers (picture 3). Even the 550 had corner washers. To clarify, they go with the head gasket.

It may be possible that they were built into your head gasket, if so I would do as Nessism suggests and torque those bolts again.

The Oblong base orings are not used on the 650g motors.

I still have the head gasket on left and I am only 60 miles from Columbus OH:-k.
 
waterman said:
Check here for corner stud washers.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=123898

These are Suzuki OEM gaskets, on top is a head gasket for 550. It is hard to tell but all of these gaskets have the corner washers. I used the gasket on right with the flat washers (picture 3). Even the 550 had corner washers. To clarify, they go with the head gasket.

It may be possible that they were built into your head gasket, if so I would do as Nessism suggests and torque those bolts again.

The Oblong base orings are not used on the 650g motors.

I still have the head gasket on left and I am only 60 miles from Columbus OH:-k.
Click to expand...

hmmm...so the one on the left is a nos suzuki gasket?...after i retorque the head and if it still leaks i will deffinately be in touch with you...we may be able to cut a deal...the condition that its in now will suffice but i deffinately dont wanna keep it that way...i may do it either tonight or tomorrow...i also need to dial the bike in...its deffinately not running to its full potential

you are about an hour and 20 min from my place by the way
 
i am just curious what kind of performance issues might i notice with a pin hole leak such as this?...while im waiting for a new gasket i would like to still ride the bike but it needs to be dialed in (carb tune)...but if the gasket leak is gonna throw everything off om not gonna bother
 
shibby_cbs said:
i am just curious what kind of performance issues might i notice with a pin hole leak such as this?...while im waiting for a new gasket i would like to still ride the bike but it needs to be dialed in (carb tune)...but if the gasket leak is gonna throw everything off om not gonna bother
Click to expand...

I doubt you will see any performance issues, it is only leaking oil not air. Worst problem is running low of oil and generally making a mess of pants. Keep an eye on oil level, my 650 has a drinking problem.
 
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