Headlight Questions

[tomcat24551]

The OEM headlight on my '79 GS850G is rated at 40 watts on LO Beam and 50watts on Hi Beam. The bike is strictly as delivered by the factory except for a Dyna S ignition I installed many years ago.

Would some of you electrical gurus out there please weigh in on these questions:

(1) Would the wiring be able to stand a standard H6024 Halogen sealed beam rated at 40 and 60 watts?

How about 55 and 65 watts? The better Sylvania XtraVision and Silverstar H6024 lamps are rated at 55 and 65 watts, and I would like to use one of those if I could--or would that be too risky?

(2) When I ride at night, I can see the Hi beam and all the instrument lights dim slightly and intermittantly. It's not a big difference, but it's noticeable. It's like it's putting out the full 50 watts and then suddenly it changes down to, say, 47 watts for a few seconds and then it goes back to 50 watts for a few more seconds then back down... It only stays at one level for maybe 5 seconds before it changes. Guys that ride behind me do NOT notice the taillight doing this.

I think this only happens when the bike is being ridden, and as near as I can tell, ONLY on Hi beam. I can't duplicate the condition while parked. Yesterday, while I had the headlight out of its enclosure, I turned the light on and moved around all of the wires that hide behind the headlight, but the light was as steady as it could be--no flickering at all.

I've checked all connections that I can find and all are tight. Could this problem be in the handlebar switch, maybe caused by road vibration?

I don't know how to isolate this problem. Thanks for any help anyone can give.

Tomcat

 

[Steve]

Personally I would think that it could handle it. However, the '79 850 had a slightly smaller stator than the rest of them. When they eliminated the kick starter for the '80 models, the 850s (and possibly the others) got a higher-capacity charging system to make sure the battery stayed charged.

You can always check your connections in your charging system to make sure they are clean and tight. Put a voltmeter on the bike and go for a ride. If you are holding 14+ volts, go for the brighter lights. Keep in mind that your light is a sealed beam, and to use the brighter H4 bulbs, you will need to get a reflector/lens assembly, too.

If you find that you need to upgrade your charging system, it won't be quite as easy as changing the stator. You will have to change the rotor, too. When they went to a higher-capacity system, they also went from a 12-pole to an 18-pole stator. I don't believe the two are compatible, so you will have to change the rotor along with the stator.

Let us know how it goes.

.

 

[lucabond]

The differance between the 50 or 60 watt bulb is an amp in draw current.
. Which means your old wiring harness would have to supply an extra amp.
I would think your bike could handle it but maybe not your old wiring.
I would do a coil mod with a relay just power the headlight with the coil.
This would leave less draw on the old harness and full battery voltage at your headlamp. You may want to try this with your old headlight before you swap as it may be brighter that way. I did this with my bike and the headlight is much brighter I also put my dash and running lights on the same feed. Now that my old harness doesnt have to supply current to those lights my blinkers work better. Before that my headlight would dim and the opposite turn light would blink dimmly. Now everything works great. Just your headlight draws over 4 amps which is alot of juice for the old wiring we have.
Good luck
Paul

 

[loungeguy69]

The wiring should be able to handle the extra amp (actually .84 amp) but it sounds like you have other electrical issues.

The above advice regarding the voltage meter is good but I'd recommend doing it while stationary and running at ~3000rpm (harder to crash while looking at the meter that way). Also check connections and especially ground points. Poor ground contacts cause lots of problems but are simple to fix (clean 'em).

 

[tomcat24551]

Thanks for the input, guys.

I'm probably going to use the 40/60 watt standard sealed beam and hope for the best. I am going to put the voltmeter on the circuit too, and see what I get.

Steve, you are right. The '79 850 had a 75 watt Alternator while the later models had an 80 watt unit. Thanks for your info about the units' compatibility. I may switch to the 80 watt unit down the road.

Also, for what it's worth, the Sylvania XtraVision and Silverstar bulbs are available in H6024, 7 inch sealed beam units at AutoZone and Advance Auto stores. You don't have to switch to the H4 style bulb.

Lucabond, I wish I was smart enough to do the relay modification you describe. Sounds like a good idea. I have duly noted your suggestion though, but right now it's over my pay grade.

If anybody can add anything further about the flickering headlight on high beam, I'm all ears.

Thanks again, guys.

Tomcat

Note: My info above regarding the capacity of the '79 Alternator vs. the later models should read Volts, not watts! Thanks for calling this to my attention.

 

[glenlloyd]

I think that you would be happier with the beam pattern from a true motorcycle H4 lamp. They are very close to the european patterned auto lamps that DOT refused to allow in the US (OE that is) for years but were available aftermarket for "off-road" use.

good luck on what ever choice you make.

steve a

 

[Steve]

Hey, you can learn something here every day.

The '79 850 had a 75 watt Alternator while the later models had an 80 watt unit. ...

I knew it was bigger, but had never known the numbers. Thanks.

Also, for what it's worth, the Sylvania XtraVision and Silverstar bulbs are available in H6024, 7 inch sealed beam units at AutoZone and Advance Auto stores.

It has been so long since I have had to look in the sealed beam section, I really have not kept track of what's in there.

Lucabond, I wish I was smart enough to do the relay modification you describe. Sounds like a good idea.

It's not really that hard. Cost is under $10, the added light on the road is priceless. There might be info still to be found in a search, but I think I also have diagrams and/or schematics on my compter at home, if you are interested.

I think that you would be happier with the beam pattern from a true motorcycle H4 lamp. They are very close to the european patterned auto lamps that DOT refused to allow in the US (OE that is) for years but were available aftermarket for "off-road" use.

I have always made it a point to keep all of my headlights "off [the] road".
Usually about three feet off the road, directly above it.

Since the day that I put a Cibie light in my '77 KZ650, I have been a firm believer in Euro-spec lights. To make them even better, I have also used 80/100 watt bulbs in the vehicles that had charging systems that could handle it, except for my Wing. The Wing has plastic parts for the headlight reflector and lens and will not handle the added heat. I also have a headlight modulator that has a limit of 150 watts, so the two 100-watt bulbs would exceed that. I make up for that with the addition of 55-watt driving lights.
With 220+ watts of lighting being thrown ahead of me, my riding season is extended right into light

.
Charging system? No problem. It's a commercially-available modified 90-amp alternator from a Saturn. :-\\\

.

 

[wilmas2cool]

On our 79 GS850GN we ran a 100watt high and 50 watt low beam halogen bulb for years with no problem. It's still in there along with all of the factory original bulbs still burning. Don't know how that happens.

 

[peterjf50]

Since this is a headlight thread, slight hi-jack

According to fisch for my 81 1000L model the stock replacement bulb is an H14, however I cannot find an H14 anywhere? Anyone know of a replacement number?

 

[rustybronco]

The '79 850 had a 75 watt Alternator while the later models had an 80 watt unit. Thanks for your info about the units' compatibility. I may switch to the 80 watt unit down the road.
Tomcat

wouldn't that be a 275 watt or 280 watt alternator.
75-80 watt output is way to low.

According to fisch for my 81 1000L model the stock replacement bulb is an H14, however I cannot find an H14 anywhere? Anyone know of a replacement number?

It would be a H4 bulb in yours. (known as a 9003)

 

[glenlloyd]

Since this is a headlight thread, slight hi-jack

According to fisch for my 81 1000L model the stock replacement bulb is an H14, however I cannot find an H14 anywhere? Anyone know of a replacement number?

Must be a typo, should probably read H4, not H14. That is if you're looking at headlight bulb. In the US you can also buy these under the 9003 number if not listed as H4 directly, they are the same type bulb.

steve a

 

[Billy Ricks]

wouldn't that be a 275 watt or 280 watt alternator.

When I first saw the 75 and 80 watt figures I thought it looked awfully low. My 700 has a 310 watt system in it.

 

[rustybronco]

50 watts for the head light + 80-100 watts (guess-timation) for the coils, now you are in negative territory.

 

[ChicagoRob]

Must be a typo, should probably read H4, not H14. That is if you're looking at headlight bulb. In the US you can also buy these under the 9003 number if not listed as H4 directly, they are the same type bulb.

steve a

Maybe not. Remember some of the L's have a different light. The boy's '80 550L has what looks like a standard 7" light with an H4. (Just replaced the bulb.) My '82 1100L has a 6.5" light that is _not_ an H4. (I wish it were, but it's not. ) I ordered a bulb from Flatout right off of the fische and it doesn't fit. (It's an H4, calling it a spare for the boy.)

The inside of the light is stamped 12V 25/35w. Does anyone have an owner's manual for an '82 GS1100GLZ? I'd love to find out what actually fits in there...

Rob

 

[peterjf50]

thanks for the info.

On a seperate note has anyone converted there headlight to HID?

 

[Billy Ricks]

thanks for the info.

On a seperate note has anyone converted there headlight to HID?

They draw way too much power for the GS system.

 

[tomcat24551]

wouldn't that be a 275 watt or 280 watt alternator.
75-80 watt output is way to low.

You're right. I should have been talking about 75 and 80 volts, not watts! It must have been late when I was looking at the BassCliff's pdf manual for those numbers.

On pg 16 of his scanned manual, the '79 850 is described as having "Alternator no-load data" of "more than 75 volts (AC) at 5000 RPM".

On pg 282 the '80 850 is described as having "Generator no-load voltage" of "more than 80 volts (AC) at 5000 RPM".

So, how do you figure watts from these numbers?

I apologize for the confusion. I will go back and edit my original post.

Sorry,

Tomcat

 

[Steve]

... has anyone converted there headlight to HID?

They draw way too much power for the GS system.

Actually, they draw less power, once they are warmed up. :-\\\

Here is a quote from Wikipedia:

Burner and ballast operation


HID headlamp bulbs do not run on low-voltage DC current, so they require a ballast with either an internal or external ignitor. The ignitor is integrated into the bulb in D1 and D3 systems, and is either a separate unit or integral with the electronic ballast in D2 and D4 systems. The ballast controls the current to the bulb. The ignition and ballast operation proceeds in three stages:

1. Ignition: a high voltage pulse is used to produce a spark ? in a manner similar to a spark plug ? which ionizes the Xenon gas, creating a conducting tunnel between the tungsten electrodes. In this tunnel, the electrical resistance is reduced and current flows between the electrodes.
2. Initial phase: the bulb is driven with controlled overload. Because the arc is operated at high power, the temperature in the capsule rises quickly. The metallic salts vapourise, and the arc is intensified and made spectrally more complete. The resistance between the electrodes also falls; the electronic ballast control gear registers this and automatically switches to continuous operation.
3. Continuous operation: all metal salts are in the vapour phase, the arc has attained its stable shape, and the luminous efficacy has attained its nominal value. The ballast now supplies stable electrical power so the arc will not flicker.

Stable operating voltage is 85 voltsAC in D1 and D2 systems, 42 volts AC in D3 and D4 systems. The frequency of the square-wave alternating current is typically 400 hertz or higher.

Burner types

HID headlamp burners produce between 2,800 and 3,500 lumens from between 35 and 38 watts of electrical power, while halogen filament headlamp bulbs produce between 700 and 2,100 lumens from between 40 and 72 watts at 12.8 V [13][14][15].

.

 

[peterjf50]

yeah, thats what I was thinking, looked at a lot of systems on e-bay and they all say use less power and such. Might be worth a shot I guess, I cant think of anything that could get hurt, can you guys?

 

[Steve]

I cant think of anything that could get hurt, can you guys?

YES.

Many of the systems (if they are true HID, not the 'looks like HID' bulbs), especially the ones you see on eBay, are poorly made. Most of the ones that you find will be listed as 'conversion' systems to convert your standard lights to HID. This won't work.

HID lights work by producing an electric arc across two electrodes. A properly-designed reflector will reflect the light produced by that arc and send it in the proper direction. This arc is horizontal and lateral. That is, the electrodes are side-by-side, across the light.

The bulbs we use now have filaments that glow very brightly when sufficient electricty is sent through them. They also have reflectors that send light out in the desired direction.

Many of the current bulbs, including the H4 bulbs that our bikes use, have filaments that are also horizontal, but in-line. That is, they are arranged front-to-back. Simply sticking a 'conversion' HID bulb in there will certainly produce a lot of light, but there is no way that the arc will be in the proper location to match where the filaments were, so the light will not be properly placed on the road. Worse yet, it might not be properly controlled to keep it out of the eyes of oncoming drivers.

Another factor to consider: You get low-and high-beam lights by using two filaments inside the same bulb. The low-beam filament has shielding to control the light to keep it out of other drivers' eyes, the high-beam filament is placed outside the shield to be able to hit the entire reflector. Most HID lights, especially the cheap ones available as conversions, do not have this feature. I have seen claims that "it's so good on low beam that you don't need a high beam" and other such garbage. I have probably driven more night-time miles than most people and can not understand how that can be possible. One setting on your headlight is not enough. TWO settings on your headlights is not enough. That is why I always have specialized lighting on my vehicles to make up for the shortcomings of the stock lights.

True HID lights are also not really small. Chances are that they will not fit in the cramped quarters of your headlight bucket. The only way to properly convert to HID lighting is to replace the entire assembly. One problem with that is that none of them have a proper enclosure for a bike.

And, ... don't even get me started on the 'looks like HID' bulbs. Most of them simply tint the glass to make it look blue like HID. Reducing your light output to only blue REALLY compromises your ability to see down the road. I tried a set of 'Ultra White' Xenon bulbs, and even got the 80/100 watt model for my van. I put them in and went for a drive. Twenty minutes later, I was home, putting my stock 55/60 watt bulbs back in so I could see. The light from the 'Ultra White' bulbs was so blue, none of the greens and yellows that are so prevalent in the world were being reflected back to me, so I could not see what was out there.

Many of the bulbs that you see on the shelf at Auto Zone and other places have a light blue tint. Same idea, different degree of reduction. Your best bet will be a CLEAR bulb. You can see more details in this paper by Daniel Stern Lighting: Bulb Articles

So, to answer your question (finally ), what can get hurt? Your wallet, when you realize you have wasted your money.

Still have questions?

.