Home-grown GS (X) 1100 turbo *DYNOSHEET*

[snowbeard]

sweet ride!! lots of fun in that! 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Hello Marco,

At first: Very nice job! Looks really great!
Is the tuning of the mixture getting alright now?

But I'm having 2 questions about your system.
1) Where do you get the neccesary oil pressure for the turbo? (an extra pump?)
2) Why did you choose a turbo from a diesel? As far a I know these are not intended to be used on a gasoline engine (exhaust gasses from a diesel have a lower temperature).

I found a link on a dutch forum about your project.

 

[Anonymous]

Tony,

I can't answer for the above bike but locally I've seen a Hayabusa turbo with the turbo connected to the header and a small lead-in pipe going to an intake plenum / small exhaust pipe coming from the turbo and no muffler and its not nearly as loud as my CBR with an m4 full system. The hiss it makes while shifting gears is wicked though!

ya mean like this :twisted:

--------

marcovandevelde, nice project!

I saw your post about it on SuperKaos.com

The gate is a must, no boost control = toasted bits

The VNT may be controlled totally diff then Normal Turbos, dunno.

You know I will have to do the GS over the winter now don't you ? :twisted:

 

[marcovandevelde]

TURBO ON THE ROAD

TURBO ON THE ROAD

Hiya Guys,
Since the last post I had the chance to put a new (stronger) stainless plenum on it, and really go for it on the road.
The problems with the fuelling going bad at transit from vaccuum to boost are gone due to the new o-rings in the floatbowl-Ts. It now runs as clean as it did with only the bigbore and pods; sweet as a babies' bottom.

The power and acceleration are absolutely stunning! It truly has to be experienced to be believed.

WARP SPEED MR.SULU! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

The VNT works well, a bit too well actually, as it will spin over 15 psi on the revs, triggering the blow-off valve to protect the engine. This will be fine tuned by opening the vanes a bit more. The turbo starts boosting from 3,500 rpm onwards with an initial 7 psi, then climbs to 15 psi at 9,500 rpm. It gets a little too hot to my liking, and so the std GSX oilcooler will be replaced with a large GSXR one when the postman brings it in.

I'm also looking into a simple water-injection system as it will make life for the big'ol lady a bit easier.

The noise it makes must be one of the most orgasmic things available. It's fairly quiet at idle, as the vanes are closed, muffling the engine well. Then when boost comes in the vanes open up (like an Exup or PAR valve) to let the engine breathe more and get a good howl from the engine. The bike whistles, goes HISSSSS and propels you forward in a way that makes you an instant addict. Close the throttle and the bikes' blow-off valve flutters to make onlookers wonder what this stock-looking bike is doing.

Don't know about you, but to me it looks a million dollars! New pics at http://home.wanadoo.nl/marcovandevelde/turbo GSX.htm


TO BE CONTINUED

Marco.

 

[Hoomgar]

Marco, sweeeeet!!!

I cut my teeth on a Turbo bike. Riding one is like nothing else!

I share your joy man

 

[lecroy]

Much nicer. I like the bug catcher.

 

[morthrane]

You never did mention... how did you deal with the oil pressure problem?

 

[Anonymous]

Very nice indeed Marco.

 

[marcovandevelde]

Hi guys, Thanks for your compliments!

Lecroy, Can you tell me, as an experienced turbo-rider, what is the best way to launch a turbobike? I've 1500mm wheelbase, but am a bit afraid to flip it so I'm not the fastest at the lights right now. Although I catch anything back within 100m or so. :lol: Also, do you use water-injection? If so, how do you determine the spraynozzle you need?

Morthrane, I don't recall which problem you refer to, but I put GS750 pumpgears in to accomodate the turbo's needs, and the oillight flickering was because the oillevel gets drawn too low 'cos the turbo circulates quite a bit of oil. So I topped it up to the max level indicator and the problem is gone.

I hope I can show you all a dynosheet in a month or so, when everything has settled.

Greetz, Marco.

 

[Anonymous]

The original engine where the turbo came off uses an oil pressure in the range of 40..100psi. What kind of oil pressure produces a GSX?
Just curious.

PS: If youre attending a bike-meeting in the near future please let me know, I would like to hear the sound .

 

[marcovandevelde]

Hi Jkoehorst,
According to a report from Garrett the VNT needs .3 gpm of oil at 30psi min. at full power. The GSX will produce more than that (around 40psi) at full tilt with the GS750 pumpgears.
The numbers you mention are probably what the car produces, but there is a small orifice (inlet restriction) inside the turbohousing that prevents oil overpressure.

I'll maybe go to the turbomeet in Germany, but not sure yet.

German turbomeet: http://kallis-bikertreff.de/Pfingsttreffen.htm

There will probably be a turbomeet in the NL at Zeist in September that I will be attending.

Greetz, Marco.

 

[lecroy]

I did some testing on this last summer and I could hit 30PSI, but not near the flow rates even with the over driven pump. Marc had suggested that when the turbo spins up that the flow rates go up. He was using a clear return line and could watch the oil flow. I ran my test a second time and indeed this was the case. I still could not meet the flow rates listed for my turbo, but it was much closer.

Lecroy, Can you tell me, as an experienced turbo-rider, what is the best way to launch a turbobike? ... Laughing Also, do you use water-injection? If so, how do you determine the spraynozzle you need?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

If I told you everything I know, you would no nothing more than you know now. I made a few DVDs last summer of some of the ProStar events. All bikes. All launches, closeup. A lot of funny bikes. Maybe I can compress some of this down for people to watch on-line. Do you have a high speed connection?

I used to use water injection (water mixed with methanol) but now I just run methanol as the main fuel. I water only as a safty measure, not to try and run higher pressures. I melted the first engine I built with a turbo after the line to the wastegate failed. That was a sad day and once the valves warped the fuel was dumping into the hot exhaust and igniting. I was told that fire was coming out like crazy. Burned my leg. Melted the plugs into the head. I had mine setup more as a fuel dump system. Above the popoff setpoint, I dumped a major amount of mix into the carb. Now days you see this line is steel over teflon on my bike.

Will be interesting to see your dyno run.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok, I never knew the oil pressure was that high, that's nice. No need for an extra pump.

Someone know if there a difference in the oiling system for a 2-valve or a 4-valve GS?

The turbomeet in germany is only 20 miles from here .

 

[marcovandevelde]

Hi Lecroy,
To be totally honest, I THINK I saw it hit 40 psi on max. revs (9.500rpm). When you're propelled forward with warp factor 9 you don't have much time nor interest to intensively watch the gauges, I think you know what I mean. :twisted: :lol: There are always issues about the oil pressure and flow. People are using Rajays for ages with good results, but they seem to have less appetite for oil than the new ones(?). Anyway, it works fine and I decided that in case I blow the turboseals I'll just buy another one (cheap as heck) and install an external oilpump.

Yeh, I do have a hig-speed connection so please KEEP THEM MOVIES COMING!

Greetz, Marco.

 

[marcovandevelde]

I melted the first engine I built with a turbo after the line to the wastegate failed. That was a sad day and once the valves warped the fuel was dumping into the hot exhaust and igniting. I was told that fire was coming out like crazy. Burned my leg. Melted the plugs into the head.

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

Good thing I've got a blowoff to protect the engine somewhat..

Jkoehorst,
I think you can look for that oil-difference-question in the Search-option. As far as I know, the aircooled 4-valve GS(X) 750s use slide-bearings and thus need higher pressure than the roller bearing 2 valve GS 750 & GS 1000- 4 valve GS(X)1100 & GS(X) 1150.

What's your ride?

Greetz, Marco.

 

[Anonymous]

Jkoehorst,
I think you can look for that oil-difference-question in the Search-option. As far as I know, the aircooled 4-valve GS(X) 750s use slide-bearings and thus need higher pressure than the roller bearing 2 valve GS 750 & GS 1000- 4 valve GS(X)1100 & GS(X) 1150.

What's your ride?

Greetz, Marco.

Yes, I will take a look into the archives of this site. I'm sure there is some info about this subject.
EDIT: Found it: 1.42 psi to 7.11 psi (79-82 550 specs) (according to the manual)

I have a ?79 GS550 and a ?80 GS850. The 850 has 25k (miles) on it and I would like to turbocharge that one. (I can almost see people thinking ?why a turbocharge a 550 lbs GS850????, well that?s called hobby?)
But I?m running everytime in oiling problems. My current plan is to use an external pump (Weldon GP302) fed from the main oil gallery and increase the output of the generator.

 

[marcovandevelde]

But I?m running everytime in oiling problems.

What problems, you mean on the std. engine or for a turbo?

Turbo-ing a GS850 isn't so stupid at all, it's roomy and strong. I'd lighten it as far as possible by putting lightweight wheels in (off a GS500 or FZR600?) and by junking the heavy brakes, chain, fenders etc. AND put some decent brakes on it, YOU NEED THEM WITH A TURBO!
The 850 is basically a bored-out GS750 with shaft-drive put into a GS 1000 frame. I'd put something like a 110 hp VW Golf TDI turbo on it, and keep the rest of the engine standard running 7 psi, or 10 psi with waterinjection. It could make something like 120-130hp... You need to put an all copper headgasket in and put an extra steel plate in the clutch. The 750/850 already have the uprated pumpgears, 'cos my set came off a 2v- 750.

Fab a plenum and linkpipe and you're there.

Sorry, I always get a bit carried away, but that's basically it 8) . Do you have CV carbs or the sliders? You will need to change to CVs to be able to pressurise.

If you want you can come over to Bergen op Zoom and have a look at my bike.

Marco.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Jkoehorst,
According to a report from Garrett the VNT needs .3 gpm of oil at 30psi min. at full power. The GSX will produce more than that (around 40psi) at full tilt with the GS750 pumpgears.
The numbers you mention are probably what the car produces, but there is a small orifice (inlet restriction) inside the turbohousing that prevents oil overpressure.

I'll maybe go to the turbomeet in Germany, but not sure yet.

German turbomeet: http://kallis-bikertreff.de/Pfingsttreffen.htm

There will probably be a turbomeet in the NL at Zeist in September that I will be attending.

Greetz, Marco.

Marco, if the restriction (orifice) is in-line with the inlet then it is a volume restricion and the pressure remains the same. If it is relief valve, then that would limit the pressure.

Just a small point, but thought you may be interested.

 

[lecroy]

Marco, if the restriction (orifice) is in-line with the inlet then it is a volume restricion and the pressure remains the same. If it is relief valve, then that would limit the pressure.

Agree, if things were allowed to equalize. Think of your water hose. Sure the house water pressure may be at 50 pounds, but the outlet of the hose is at atmosphere. The turbo is the same. The oil outlet is vented to the crank, which is normally atmospheric pressure (or maybe even lower). May flow meters work this way. Using a constant orifice size and measuring the differential pressure across it.

Yeh, I do have a hig-speed connection so please KEEP THEM MOVIES COMING!

Ok, I will see if I can rip you some today. Be sure to watch their feet.

To be totally honest, I THINK I saw it hit 40 psi on max. revs (9.500rpm).

This could be. I was using 20W50 and was testing at 5000RPM from what I remember on the 2-step in my second test. The turbo will run about 2 PSI on the 2-step.

If you look at my rajay section, you can see the two different bearings that were used. One single feed and one dual. I am not so sure that the flow rates were not different for the two. My testing was all on the single feed. The lack of oil would do more damage than seals. And in my cast the parts are getting harder to come by. Kelley and Turbonetics have been very good about shipping me parts, but it takes a while.

Good thing I've got a blowoff to protect the engine somewhat..

I met a guy who was trying to make a very fast high volume valve for when the engine would lean out. The back pressure was enough to break the compressor housing of the turbocharger. I guess he used to buy the plates by the dozen. I don't have anything on my bike to protect it other than just flooding the damm thing with fuel.

 

[Anonymous]

What problems, you mean on the std. engine or for a turbo?
...

The demands for the turbo are quite high, 40psi. My standard oil system wil never be able to produce this pressure and its hard to find a suitable external oilpump with this spec's (compact, low electric current, temps up to 250 degrees Fahrenheit).

...
Turbo-ing a GS850 isn't so stupid at all, it's roomy and strong. I'd lighten it as far as possible by putting lightweight wheels in (off a GS500 or FZR600?) and by junking the heavy brakes, chain, fenders etc. AND put some decent brakes on it, YOU NEED THEM WITH A TURBO!
The 850 is basically a bored-out GS750 with shaft-drive put into a GS 1000 frame. I'd put something like a 110 hp VW Golf TDI turbo on it, and keep the rest of the engine standard running 7 psi, or 10 psi with waterinjection. It could make something like 120-130hp... You need to put an all copper headgasket in and put an extra steel plate in the clutch. The 750/850 already have the uprated pumpgears, 'cos my set came off a 2v- 750.

Fab a plenum and linkpipe and you're there.

Sorry, I always get a bit carried away, but that's basically it 8) . Do you have CV carbs or the sliders? You will need to change to CVs to be able to pressurise.

If you want you can come over to Bergen op Zoom and have a look at my bike.

Marco.

"roomy and strong" that is exactly what I liked about it . My first try will be with a K03 turbo on the front. These things produce full boost at 1800rpm on a VW golf 1.8...
I already have the CV carbs. Correction, 'HAD', they made some room for a fuel injection intake system :roll: (although not running, the hardware is there but the computer not yet). I hate carbs and this is a good reason to dump them completely.

I will remember the brake-tip and start looking for something bigger.