honda cvcc motor in a suzuki?

[kirkn]

I understand they are different but if you look at say a cb900 and a gs850 the engines look very similer and for that matter the so does the kx as well i was just wondering if this was simply a coincidence in the build or if these bikes had some parts in common that cause them to look alike? im deffinitly no mechanic and i dont really know much about these bikes thats why i was wondering if it was a coincidence or if they are all built off some common model/parts?

That would be kinda like saying that the Ford, Chevy and Chrysler small-block automotive V-8s of the mid-60s looked kinda similar - 289, 283, 273 cu. in., they had a V-8 configuration, the exhausts were on the outside of the V, the carburetor sat on the inside of the V, the cams sat in the center of the V, they had transmissions bolted on the rear, they had a fan and radiator in front.... So, was the Ford "based on" the Chevy or the Chevy "based on" the Chrysler? Of course not.

They have no parts in common, other than perhaps a few nuts and bolts, and maybe the spark plugs.

I don't know how much clearer everyone can make it....

 

[Planecrazy]

If your brother used to work for Honda as a tech I'd expect him to be a little more knowledgeable than he appears to be. Most "techs" have a pretty broad knowledge of their competitor's products, at least broad enough to know which products share parts, similarities, etc. It seems in this case he's talking out of his a$$ without having any actual knowledge to back it up...

There ARE very interesting instances where the major Japanese manufacturers produced products that are SO alike that you would scratch your head wondering how they all could have possibly arrived at the same conclusion independently, only to find out that they were building products based on a single government specification.

Case in point: The late eighties/early nineties Japanese mid-engined minivans. The three we got (Toyota/Nissan/Mitsubishi) were all astonishingly similar in almost every dimension, not to mention how much they looked like fraternal triplets, despite being completely unique and sharing nothing mechanically in common with each other. Turns out they all had to meet specific government requirements in Japan for that type of cargo vehicle, and were eventually converted for passenger use as well.

The same coincidences still occur today. Look at how similar the Toyota Prius and new Honda Insight look, despite being entirely different in almost every way other than basic body shell design...

Bottom Line: You are lucky enough to have a worldwide network of GS lovers at your disposal who can unequivacably attest to the fact that the Honda motor shares nothing in common with the Suzuki motor aside from basic appearances (and even there they look almost nothing alike). It is quite possible that this coincidence arose from similar design specs both companies were working independently on back then, just as they still do today. In the end, all you need to know is that your brother is 100% wrong - now go serve him some Humble Pie and make sure he gets a full serving, hehe!

Regards,

 

[tx2000bob]

the Honda motor shares nothing in common with the Suzuki motor aside from appearances.,

appearances? :-k

 

[madjack57754]

CVCC-TSCC.... It can be confusing to some and you have to understand that things are different in East Dakota.
First Honda Civics were 600cc, with a single overhead cam ran both intake and the exhaust valves. The transaxel bolted on, in addition to being air cooled. The SOHC motor used in the 1969 CB750 is a completely different design as it has a unit case with trans built in. Liquid cooling started around 1970 in the cars, with the 1200 until around 1980 when the 1300-1500's came out

 

[Planecrazy]

appearances? :-k

What I meant by that is that they are both inline 4's ... Tough Crowd! I went ahead and edited the prior post to clarify...

Regards,

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Road signs should be written in braille?

Road signs should be written in braille?

ahh oky so is the GS engines possibly based off of the old CB honda engines or vice versa or is it just a coincidence of layout? the carb setup and blocks look very similer to me (of course the GS850 having DOHC but still they look alot alike)

You mean because they're both look kind of silvery?

 

[Steve]

Road signs should be written in braille?

Why not? :-k

They already have it at the drive-up ATMs at the bank.

.

 

[chompper]

Thank you

Thank you

thanks guys i actually found out that the honda's suzuki's and kawasaki's look similer (in apearance not design/engineering) because they were copies but only in basic appearance none of them shared any parts in common at all and thank you for the posts i will finally be able to stick it to my brother and his honda-on-the-brain if it works must be a honda attitude he has had lately. i knew they were completly different but i just didnt have the tech knowhow to dispute him with. i appreciate the learning experiance. even if he just gets mad and continues to try and tell me all of yall are wrong and he's right. which is just him in denial i think lol but thank you now i can ride in peace knowing its not a honda. lol

 

[rapidray]

Tell your brother to stick to his X-Box, or Play Station or whatever he is an "expert" in. As far as motorcycles go, he's NOT all there. Ray.

 

[Billy Ricks]

About all you can say is they were all inline fours. Just like all inline sixes are inline sixes, all V-8s are V-8s and on down the line.

 

[bwringer]

Just to inject another note of oddity into this, I understand you can install buckets and shims from a KZ into a GS engine -- the lifter bores just happen to be the same diameter between certain models. I believe the idea is to lose a bit of weight from the valvetrain by using the KZ's shim-under-bucket configuration, and thus gain a bit more over-rev ability.

But mainly, KZ, GS, and CB engines look somewhat alike for the same reasons that sharks, barracudas, and porpoises look alike at first glance -- convergent evolution. Given the same materials and the same set of problems to solve, engineers will often come up with solutions that are very similar, especially when they share a culture and much of the same training, as was the case in Japan at the time.

Same with the sea creatures -- they all need to swim fast to catch prey underwater, so they ended up looking much the same.

But with both examples, there are very important differences under the outer coverings and few parts in common.

 

[Texasgs]

arg

arg

Inevitably someone will always come out with some #*xx#* like that. There is one in every crowd. I always say, know what you know, but more importantly know why you know it. So if your source is not reliable and up to date, neither will the info be that you get from the source.

I had someone tell me that my GS1100E motor looked like something out of a space ship, as their little non motor head mind marveled at the finned wonder. Far be it from me to question this person, so that must mean I am the proud owner of some cool ailen hardware. I guess I need to wake up now, Oh and that CVCC thing made me laugh so hard I almost peed my pants. That sounds like something Patric would say on Sponge Bob, right after saying Daaaa, eeeee.

 

[TeamDar]

Just to inject another note of oddity into this, I understand you can install buckets and shims from a KZ into a GS engine -- the lifter bores just happen to be the same diameter between certain models. I believe the idea is to lose a bit of weight from the valvetrain by using the KZ's shim-under-bucket configuration, and thus gain a bit more over-rev ability.

QUOTE]
This is not really true. The KZ uses 29mm buckets while the GS uses 29.5mm buckets. You are probably thinking of the KZ650 style shim under style system. You can use the 13mm shim and the matching valve spring retainer from the KZ650 in the GS, but you must buy aftermarket 29.5mm shim under tappets.

 

[bwringer]

Just to inject another note of oddity into this, I understand you can install buckets and shims from a KZ into a GS engine -- the lifter bores just happen to be the same diameter between certain models. I believe the idea is to lose a bit of weight from the valvetrain by using the KZ's shim-under-bucket configuration, and thus gain a bit more over-rev ability.

QUOTE]
This is not really true. The KZ uses 29mm buckets while the GS uses 29.5mm buckets. You are probably thinking of the KZ650 style shim under style system. You can use the 13mm shim and the matching valve spring retainer from the KZ650 in the GS, but you must buy aftermarket 29.5mm shim under tappets.

Thanks!

It was only a hazy, half-remembered tidbit from some long-ago forum post.

So, everyone: please don't go out and stuff KZ buckets into your GS, mmkay? At least, research it a bit more thoroughly first.

 

[850 Combat]

Ask him where CVCC is now. It appears to be nothing but an oddity of a footnote in automotive history. I do know that before Honda came out with it, several other companies were experimenting with what was genericly called "stratified charge", which generally had a separate attached combustion chamber with a richer mixture to light off the richer mixture.

Controlled turbulance from squish areas seems to have proven both simpler and more effective.

It is my understanding the Suzuki TSSC cylinder head is similar to the Cosworth DFV, which was one of the most successful racing engines of all time, winning numerous F1 championships over a long period of time, then it was converted to alchahol and turbo and had a long career in indy cars.

CVCC on the other hand is long dead, isn't it?.

i will finally be able to stick it to my brother and his honda-on-the-brain if it works must be a honda attitude he has had lately.