How to Paint two tone paint scheme?

[srsupertrap]

I am interested in painting or perhaps having someone paint my GS1000E for it's 30th anniversary. My GS1000 was repainted with Imron back in 1988, the paint held up remarkably well but the clear coat is lifting under the gas tank. Does anyone have experienced/expert advice on the current process of painting a two tone paint scheme ala factory Suzuki GS1000S, Iseloman GS1100ES or Cloudbreak's GS1000. Perhaps there is an article out there on the entire process & pitfalls.

My painting technique is sound and I understand the primer, base coat & clear coat process but I have no experience with painting that second contrasting color. So we are on the same page I will use the 1979/80 GS1000S as an example. The base coat would be white and the second contrasting color is blue. The issues I don't understand when painting the blue color are 1) First, should I use a special paint or can I merely paint another off the shelf base coat color over the first base coat color. 2) What tape or process do use to avoid the second color from bleeding over to the base coat? 3) What process do use to ensure the second color tape lines are razor sharp. I have read you use a razor knife? 4) How long should you wait before removing the tape 5) Is this process better left to a professional painter?

I believe painting my GS with a bright silver base coat and then a contrasting metallic blue paint (similar to the color below) scheme should look sharp. I am not interested in recreating a GS1000S paint job but rather a unique handsome paint scheme.

 

[Hammered]

The way Ive always added a second color to the mix is masking tape. From 1/8" to 4" stuff. Just before you go to lay the mask down, wet sand with a high grit. I use 800 or higher just to remove that glaze that the last color coat has from curing. Then after that mask, paint, wet sand. The wet sanding after the second color is to help blend the to layers, not colors. Then clear coat, wet sand, clear coat wet sand and repeat til its smooth as glass then let cure a few days. I use a radiant heat to aid in the curing. Then start buffing. Im sure mine is a laymen way but Ive had good results to the point of being asked who laid the paint on some of the rattle can jobs Ive done. Im not great, but Im picky about the finished product.

 

[1980GS1000E]

Nice bike, BTW..

 

[Nessism]

The way I do it...

Lay down the base color and seal over with a couple of layers of clear. Let dry for a few days and scuff it down with 1000 grit wet.

Define the area you are going to paint using 3M fine line tape or high quality electrical tape. Burnish the tape line firmly and you won't get bleed through.

Spray the contracting color and after it drys to the touch, remove the tape. If you need fine line pinstripes or graphics, add it now. Lastly, hit the entire piece with a couple more layers of clear.

Let dry and remove dirt nibs as needed and polish.

Lastly, kick back with a cold beverage and enjoy your new paint job!:

 

[mighty13d]

Basecoat ready for the clear

Great step by step pics and awesome result. You definitely showed how easy this can be with a little planning!

 

[srsupertrap]

Nessism, 8trackmind & 1980GS1000E: Thanks for the information, photos & compliment. I am now feeling more confident about this project but that raises some follow up questions.

First regarding prepping the painted surfaces; the entire finish on my GS1000 is clear coated. I would like to just wet sand the tank and all the plastic parts with 800-1000 grit sand paper and start painting from there or is it necessary to strip the entire tank down & other parts to ensure the new layers of paint will adhere correctly.

Second, what paint should I be using for this project. I have read Dupont Imron isn't widely used anymore in automotive painting industry. I would like to use a good quality paint with excellent chemical resistance to gasoline etc. I recall reading Nessism painted his GS850 with Dupont PPG; how is that paint holding up? Same question for Mr. 8trackmind and the rest of the gang

 

[rudy]

Having a few pro bodyshop buddies, these points have come up in conversation before for myself. Now, I'm no expert, but just going by what I've been told by my pro buddies. You could paint over the existing, but you don't want to. For the little big of effort it would take to strip the paint, you'll get a much better result in the end. If the paint is too thick (such as two paint jobs), it could also crack over time. This is bad. Adhesion is another problem. The new paint job will only stick as well as the old paint job was done. Likely not a problem since your current paint was done a while ago and seems to be holding up.

As for the paint to use, a lot of people use Dupont PPG. Seems to be a popular choice.

 

[spyug]

What Rudy said is generally true but you could be fine if the previous paint job is stable. i.e. hasn't cracked or sustantially weathered and has fully outgassed. If the previous coats were done fairly recently (within the year) and or were of a different paint type, you could very well get problems. Also if the surface is not super, super clean and wax free.

If you paint over, first make sure there is no wax, then use a very fine grit wet and dry (1000 and up) with lots of wet. Wipe dry and wipe again with solvent suitable for the paint system you are going to use. Usually, the thinners used with the paint type. Repeat Until everything is clean and no "dirt" shows on a dry white cloth.

When handling the parts to be painted wear latex or vinyl gloves. Oils from your hands will contaminate the surface and you could mess up the paint.

Before even getting to painting you want to have stands made up to support the pieces. The pieces should fit well so you can move the stands around and the pieces don't flop or fall off. You need to get at the pieces from all angles. You will also need to fab up a "Paint booth" or some structure to keep out or at least cut down dust in the air and airflow in general. I use 4'x4' frames made with 1" stock covered with vapour barrier plastic or large garbage bags. Three clamped together in a C shape with one across the top all of it set on top of an old door held by saw horses...setup in the garage. also, cover everything in the near vicinty that you don't want to paint. Over spray can get everywhere.

If you are going to paint with an HVLP gun and compressor, set the compressor output to the highest you can get. Air pressure drops substantially from tank to gun even in a short hose. The paint may specify application pressure of 15 to 25 pounds or so. To be sure you are getting this you need a regulator on the gun.

In painting of any type good prep will aid in getting a good finish. If the surface of the piece is not true and smooth as a babies you know what, the paint will show it all up.

Once you've painted clean your equipment thoroughly. Nothing worse than doing coat number 2 with a gun that shoots splotches or crap. Run thinners through the gun to purge old paint if you are planing on recoating in a short period but otherwise disassemble the gun and drop all the "guts" in solvent to clean. do a good job and your guns will last for ages.

I also wanted to mention, you can paint in low temperatures ( i.e. garage in winter) if you first a)heat the parts to room temp in the house and b) use a heat lamp to surface cure the paint then transfer the parts back into the house to finish cure. Have done this several times over the years with no problems. For a good cheap "heatlamp" i use halogen work lights you know the rectangular kind you can get at the hardware stores for $20 or less.

Also always think safety around chemicals, wear good quality and properly rated masks and don't shoot paint anywhere around open flames ( like radiant heaters or furnace/water heater elements etc.)

Hope this all helps a bit and good luck with it. We'll be watching closely so lots of pics as you go along.
Cheers,
Spyug.

 

[Nessism]

My favorite clear is PPG 2001/2002. Very durable stuff but expensive and not available in many urban areas that have tight VOC standards. For the primer, I like DP epoxy. Good stuff.

Regarding the old finish, I recommend stipping. It will keep the film build down which is critical to preventing chipping.

 

[alton_blair]

As long as the paint that is currently on the bike isn't lifting or chipping your fine. I would suggest using the DuPont Chroma Premier system. Scuff your current paint with a red scrubby pad (the square ones like in your kitchen) or 800 grit and above sand paper. Now that it?s sanded use the chemical clean and non lent cotton towels to wipe everything down. When you go to your paint shop to get supplies ask them for the mineral spirits chemical clean. Shoot euro prime on it. The euro prime will seal in the old paint and give the new paint something to adhere to. When painting always have a piece of cardboard/paper to make your first shot of paint on, this will let you adjust you paint gun and let you put your fingerprints into something to see if it?s dry. When the euro prime is completely dry take some 1000 grit sand paper and wetsand with lots of water and splash of dish soap until it?s smooth. When you have everything smooth use the chemical clean and non lent cotton towels to wipe everything down. Apply your first color of base. Let dry and then use chemical clean and non lent cotton towels to wipe everything down. Apply tape (thin blue tape they will help you at the paint store). Apply other color and let dry. Wipe everything down and shoot clear. Put the clear on rather liberally, but wait 10-15 minutes in between coats. When you think the clear is dry wait another 2 days. Now take 1500 grit sandpaper and wet sand until you see no more shinny. Be careful not to break through the clearcoat. When the clear is smooth as can be, buff until glasslike appearance. Or you could take everything to an autobody shop (NOT MACO) and ask them to price it. You could also see what autobody schools are in your area and ask them to paint it. The school will only charge you for supplies and you don?t have to buy a paint gun.

 

[srsupertrap]

Guys, thanks for all the detailed responses. The clear coat under the gas cap has lifted & yellowed a bit so I agree with you it's better to strip the gas tank down to bare metal and start fresh from there. I have lots of time to do this project but not lots of money since I to just joined the ranks of the unemployed in December.

I can borrow my next door neighbor air compressor when the time comes. I will need to round up a quality spray gun w regulator too but that can wait since I have not even decided on the base coat colors. I will have to investigate alton_blair's suggestion of a high school body shop as well because where I live in Colorado it not a matter of if it's windy but rather the degree of wind. Okay I can do this, I will start removing parts.

 

[posplayr]

So what is a reasonable amount of time

So what is a reasonable amount of time

to "Dry" between coats.

I know you can go 30 minutes before spraying between coats, but you need to let it harden enough so you can put the tape down.

So what is the minimum time at 75-85 deg C with a modern PPG paint for example.

Pos

 

[mighty13d]

I can borrow my next door neighbor air compressor when the time comes. I will need to round up a quality spray gun w regulator too but that can wait since I have not even decided on the base coat colors. I will have to investigate alton_blair's suggestion of a high school body shop as well because where I live in Colorado it not a matter of if it's windy but rather the degree of wind. Okay I can do this, I will start removing parts.

Be careful when painting because air compressors will build up condensation in them and I haven't yet seen anyone post about having an in-line air dryer after the regulator. My old man has a set up with a regulator, air dryer and a clean hose that isn't dirty for when we paint stuff there. Just a little food for thought. Having water in the paint really wouldn't be very good. Of course you could always open the bleed screw on the bottom of the tank and make sure there isn't anything built up in it too...

 

[posplayr]

2 tone tricks and tips

2 tone tricks and tips

Garden-variety masking tape cannot be trusted to leave a sharp edge. The right tape for the job is Scotch 1/4-inch 471 plastic tape (PN 06405). Its robust vinyl construction resists tearing and easily conforms to curves without wrinkling and causing paint leaks.

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/82398_two_tone_paint_job/index.html

I found that one way to do a clean two tone is not over apply color to the stripe line. Most people put more base coat on than is necessary resulting in a heavy edge. When putting on your second color, don't be worried about total coverage near your stripe line. Concentrate on coverage on the rest of your panel(s) and then as you do your orientation or metallic control coat, only put enough base on the stripe line as needed. Your not doing a color match, so multiple coats aren't necessary. When you clear the panel(s), put a medium wet coat on the stripe area and allow to set up until slick to the touch. This will give you a bridge over the uneven area, then continue with your clear coating of two to three coats on the entire panels.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/how-get-clean-edge-two-tone-paint-job-122541.html

• • If the line where the two tones meet is not exactly straight, a good way to remedy that is to apply a border with a colored tape or racing stripe.
  • Be sure each application of paint dries completely before moving to the next tone. Jumping the gun is a good way to ruin what you've already done.

  http://www.ehow.com/how_4500292_do-two-tone-paint-job.html

http://www.ehow.com/how_4500292_do-two-tone-paint-job.html

They are right. Tape on tape off ASAP. And yes use the blue 3M it's not as tacky. Also when taping make sure you go over any door seams ect with a tooth pick or at least your finger nail. As sure as crap you'll see paint that has seeped up under there. Check 3 or 4 times before paint. Remember your paint job is only as good as your prep!!!

http://cs.scaleautomag.com/scacs/forums/p/75007/782590.aspx

With the taping process completed, it's time to get the area masked up. With masking paper, cover the section of the scooter cowl that will remain white.
Prepare the surface, which is cured, to create a mechanical bond with scratches or tooth so the paint can adhere properly. To create the bond use an abrasive pad and scuff the surface applying light pressure. Be sure to get into all of the tight contours right along the tape edge (figure C) so the entire cowl has a tooth for the paint.






To unmask take the paper off first because you don't want the blue paper flipping into the yellow. If the color happens to be soft, you could have a mess on your hands.
When pulling the outline tape off you don't want to pull up, you want to pull the tape against itself. Fold it back over and pull it against the edge. This does two things:

1. It lessens the chance of pulling the underneath paint up or tearing the edge.
2. And it also allows the tape to actually cut the line for you as it's cutting back.

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ab_auto_restoration/article/0,,diy_13680_3389999,00.html


Pos

 

[srsupertrap]

Reasonable HVLP Spray Gun & optional nozzle sizes

Reasonable HVLP Spray Gun & optional nozzle sizes

I started reading & researching the topic of High Volume Low Pressure gravity fed spray guns and there are a million choices out there. I contacted an old friend who used a Porter Cable PSH1 ($100 & 2 Year warranty) to do a two tone paint job on his 73 Hardley FLH. He said the paint job turned out well but the Porter Cable spray gun was not a good choice for shooting the clear coat. I contacted Porter Cable and found the standard nozzle for the PSH1 spray gun is 1.5mm. They have a 2.0mm nozzle which would be good for primers? but nothing smaller than standard 1.5mm nozzle.

I have read that when spraying the primer, base & clear coats you should be using different sized nozzles. I believe when you shoot the primer I should be using a 1.7 to 2.0mm nozzle. The base coat requires a 1.3 to 1.5mm nozzle and the clear coat requires the smallest nozzle tip because the material is very thin. I would like to purchase a quality mid-grade HVLP Spray Gun which has optional nozzle sizes that cover the range of primer to clear. I have seen some kits on EBay such as the DeVILBISS FinishLine 3 Master Kit but I am no expert when it comes to painting equipment.

Can anyone suggest a good cost effective HVLP Spray Gun for my project that isn't Made in China?

 

[rustybronco]

I have read that when spraying the primer, base & clear coats you should be using different sized nozzles. I believe when you shoot the primer I should be using a 1.7 to 2.0mm nozzle.

it all depends on what the paint manufacture recommends to use with their primer. I shot my primer (ppg) with a 1.6?mm tip

The base coat requires a 1.3 to 1.5mm nozzle and the clear coat requires the smallest nozzle tip because the material is very thin.

I use a 1.4mm tip for base and clear. it's all that I have on my astro EVO 4014. a 1.2-1.3 mm tip would be nice to have, but not absolutely required.

can anyone suggest a good cost effective HVLP Spray Gun for my project that isn't Made in China?

no.

 

[posplayr]

Having recently been at the beginning stage with painting

Having recently been at the beginning stage with painting

I have some experience with where you are at.


I figured I'd buy a quality gun and so chipped in with my brother on a DeVilbiss gun. Problem was that HVLP needs alot of air flow in fact too much for even a good 120V compressor. Bottom line no paint comes out of the gun.

On the other hand there are "touch up" guns, that work remarkably well depending upon your skill level. With a PPG paint the process is surprisingly forgiving (depending on what you are going to do). The top clear coat really makes everything look really good.

I chronicled my GS1100ED refurb, and some of the body paint job. This is what I used for most of my painting. It fully disassembles, if fully adjustable and works just fine with my home compressor. You don't really need anything more than this, especially of you are spraying outside.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92126

Dont let the cheap gun make you think i went cheap. I spent about $350 on primer/paints/pearl and clear.

It is the right size, works well and easy to use and works with a small compressor.

Only thing I ended up doing was to use a couple of rubber bands to hold teh top down so when I was waving the gun the top did not come off and to cover the top vent hole.

Other than that works well and is so small that it is much easier to clean.

Pos

 

[Nessism]

Most clear paints are pretty thick so you need a pretty large tip size. I manage to get by with a 1.0 tip in a Sata Mini Jet but it lays down very thin coats.

Understand that if you get a detail or touch up gun, which is a good size to paint motorcycle parts, the spray pattern is smaller so you don't need as large a tip.

Not to go against Jim here but if you choose to get a HF paint gun I'd get one like this... http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46719 It's a little more money but still pretty cheap. Other choices here... http://search.harborfreight.com/cpi...e=1&resultsPerPage=49&resultsPerPageBottom=49

 

[feelergaugephil]

I was going to comment, but I guess all bases have been covered.
Post your final pix.....
Phil.

 

[posplayr]

Ed

Ed

Have u used that sprayer and it works? If so I'll grab one. I dont know if it is the recession but that touch up gun I mentioned, used to be $14.95 .
Regardless, I sprayed all of the Por 15, and body paint with a pair of them. .
The big issue with LPHV is the High V and using smaller compressors. Touch up seems great.

I'm always looking for something proven and better. :dancing:

Pos