How to raise the dead?

[007jag]

Hello to all.
Ok I'm working toward getting my 85 GS 700ES back on the road after a 15 year sit. Some of the time she was outside and most she just sat in the garage.

The tank is at the radiator shop - trying to get all the rust out.
The forks just got pulled - to replace bad oil seals and I have some progressive suspension springs to put in.
( could use advice on getting the tubes apart, replacing the seals etc. and getting it all back together?)

A friend helped me take the carbs down & cleaned everything up and put them back together. Will they need to be synched ( spelling?) now?

That same friend is going to help me check & set valve clearance - I picked up a gasket.

I have a new Electrex R/R - this will be the 4th one and I hope the last!!
New chain, Plugs, Oil & filter, battery and brake fluid will go in.
Oh yeah I need new brake pads - I think the set now were Ferrodo and they are the 2nd set that went in about 18 years ago.

What is a good set of brake pads to get?
And does anyone know of a reasonably priced set of SS brake lines for the bike?

Now the big question - What and how should I do with the motor??
It has been sitting for 15 years and I could really use some good suggestions for bring her back to life??

Many thanks to all for guidance.
Jack

 

[Agemax]

you will need a new battery as well. fit all the new bits, plugs etc. replace the engine oil and filter. use cheap oil to start with just to flush any cobwebs out. after a few hours running, replace it with some decent oil and a new filter.
fire it up and see how she sounds.

as far as the rest of the bike goes, replace any thing that looks dodgy, check all bolts for tightness and corrosion, check and grease all moving parts like swingarm pivots, wheel bearings etc.

good luck and lets see some pics!!!

 

[tkent02]

A friend helped me take the carbs down & cleaned everything up and put them back together. Will they need to be synched ( spelling?) now?

Bench synch and then when you get it running, vacuum synch. Do this after the valves have been adjusted.

I have a new Electrex R/R - this will be the 4th one and I hope the last!!

The first one would be the last with proper maintenance on the rest of the electrical system.
Read and do:
http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/Stator_Papers_Phase A.pdf
Then read the entire Stator Papers.
http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfacts.htm
Charging problems are almost always caused by corrosion in wiring connectors and grounds.

New chain, Plugs, Oil & filter, battery and brake fluid will go in.
Oh yeah I need new brake pads - I think the set now were Ferrodo and they are the 2nd set that went in about 18 years ago.

Most likely the master cylinders and calipers need to be taken apart and cleaned out inside to be safe, it's not that hard to do. Chunks inside the calipers can migrate up and block the return port in the MC, which can cause the brakes to lock up, sometimes even if you don't touch the brake lever. If the old chain is worn at all it needs sprockets. And you need new tires for sure.

What is a good set of brake pads to get?
And does anyone know of a reasonably priced set of SS brake lines for the bike?

Brake pads, get some sticky high performance ones, these bikes need all the help they can get. Make your own SS lines, there is info on this site.

Now the big question - What and how should I do with the motor??
It has been sitting for 15 years and I could really use some good suggestions for bring her back to life??

Clean all the leaves and things off the top of the head before pulling a spark plug. Does the engine turn freely or is it stuck? Either way I would put some Marvel Mystery Oil in each spark plug hole and let it sit a few days before starting it up. It frees things like piston rings up really well.
Put in clean cheap oil, run it a little bit and put in good oil.

Sounds like you have the right attitude about it, so many come on here whining because the POS they bought for $250 is not running right, dead battery or whatever, and only do the bare minimum to get it running again.

 

[Nessism]

Diesel engine oil is great for air cooled motorcycles and much cheaper than overpriced motorcycle oil. Personally, I wouldn’t worry about changing it out before 1000 miles but that’s just me.

When you did the carbs I trust you took out all the various jets and soaked the bodies in carb dip. The pilot jets are particularly prone to clogging and you need to verify the orifice is open. Cycleorings.com sells O-ring kits which are mandatory for any old GS with 28 year old o-rings inside. Also, you need to change the intake pipe O-rings since they are almost sure to leak if you don’t refresh them.

Another thing you should consider is a full brake system tear down, calipers and masters, to make sure they are not clogged with gunk, which is very likely. Only way to properly clean these parts is with a tear down, flushing by bleeding does not work.

Good luck

 

[fenderfreek]

Diesel engine oil is great for air cooled motorcycles and much cheaper than overpriced motorcycle oil. Personally, I wouldn?t worry about changing it out before 1000 miles but that?s just me.

Wow, that's the first time I've seen that mentioned. Does any diesel oil work, or does it matter dino/synthetic? It's be nice if I can start using that instead.

 

[tkent02]

Wow, that's the first time I've seen that mentioned. Does any diesel oil work, or does it matter dino/synthetic? It's be nice if I can start using that instead.

Not Diesel Oil, motor oil for Diesel engines. Huge difference.

 

[Agemax]

Not Diesel Oil, motor oil for Diesel engines. Huge difference.

i think he knew that, thats why he asked about dino or synthetic.

 

[fenderfreek]

Not Diesel Oil, motor oil for Diesel engines. Huge difference.

So we're talking like Rotella T here?

 

[Steve]

Yep, Rotella works great. Some of the guys use the dino in the white jug, some of us use the synthetic in the blue jug.

.

 

[007jag]

Big thanks for the tips & advice!

Big thanks for the tips & advice!

Wow SUPER Response!:clap:
Nessism, FenderFreek, Tkent02, Agemax and Steve thank you guys very much.

I actually have the manual and had to laugh when reading the fork section and it says basically "Remove" this - Like I have ever seen the inside of this stuff before - LOL.
But somehow - someway she is getting back on the road, so again my thanks to all for your help.

Ok tear down the calipers and Master cylinders, inspect & replace the bad Will Do!
Lube anyplace I can find to get a grease gun - Will Do!
Check & tighten all bolts etc. - Will Do!

On the carbs we pulled all the jets and cleaned & ran thin wire through each. Then cleaned the seat to the float & all we could reach with some carb cleaner.
Once we were done my friend checked the passages with blowing air & checking seats - It all seemed good.

The low/idle plugs were very soft - so I have replaced them

I have not replaced any O rings ???? -- Do I need to back up and get those??

The motor has been still for 15 years and I'm not familiar with Marvel mystery oil and how to use it??
Also what is this about Diesel Oil -- Where & How??

I will open & drain anything in the oil pan - install a new filter and go the cheap oil for a short time - and then repeat with good oil after a few hours running.

Basically what would be the best procedure to just get the motor to turn over?? ( before I try & start her)

Put it 1st gear and use the rear wheel to start her turning??

Anything I should be looking or listening for while doing this??

Again thanks to everyone for the help & advise.

Also I could use some advice on getting the fork tubes apart and someone said that some kind of home made tool could put together to do what the shop manual "special tool" does - I have no clue??
Regards,
Jack

 

[Steve]

We'll just answer these as they come:

Wow SUPER Response!:clap:
Nessism, FenderFreek, Tkent02, Agemax and Steve thank you guys very much.
No problem, that's what we do here.
I actually have the manual and had to laugh when reading the fork section and it says basically "Remove" this - Like I have ever seen the inside of this stuff before - LOL.
But somehow - someway she is getting back on the road, so again my thanks to all for your help.

Ok tear down the calipers and Master cylinders, inspect & replace the bad Will Do!
Lube anyplace I can find to get a grease gun - Will Do!
Check & tighten all bolts etc. - Will Do!

On the carbs we pulled all the jets and cleaned & ran thin wire through each. Then cleaned the seat to the float & all we could reach with some carb cleaner.
Once we were done my friend checked the passages with blowing air & checking seats - It all seemed good.
Now it's time to go back and clean them. They really need to be disassembled and DIPPED, overnight for each carb.
The low/idle plugs were very soft - so I have replaced them
If you are talking about the disks over the idle mixture adjustment screws, you don't need those.
I have not replaced any O rings ???? -- Do I need to back up and get those??
Without a doubt, YES. Contact GSR member Robert Barr at cycleorings.com for a complete kit.

The motor has been still for 15 years and I'm not familiar with Marvel mystery oil and how to use it??
Remove the spark plugs, put a few tablespoons of oil in each cylinder so that it can work its way around the rings. Let it sit for a day or two before trying to move anything. Might add a little more MMO every once in a while.
Also what is this about Diesel Oil -- Where & How??
Where? In the crankcase. How? Simple, just use it as your lubricating oil.

I will open & drain anything in the oil pan - install a new filter and go the cheap oil for a short time - and then repeat with good oil after a few hours running.
That "good oil" you will be installing is your diesel oil.
Basically what would be the best procedure to just get the motor to turn over?? ( before I try & start her)
Look at the MMO suggestion a few lines above this one. Make sure the pistons and rings are well lubed before trying to move them.
Put it 1st gear and use the rear wheel to start her turning??
If you want to use the wheel to try to turn the engine, use 5th gear, not 1st. Much easier to turn the engine that way. However, an even easier way is to remove the ignition cover on the right side of the engine and use a 19mm wrench on the end of the crank.
Anything I should be looking or listening for while doing this??
Just all the usual noises.
Again thanks to everyone for the help & advise.

Also I could use some advice on getting the fork tubes apart and someone said that some kind of home made tool could put together to do what the shop manual "special tool" does - I have no clue??
Have you done a search for "special tool" yet? There have been several posts about this, and some of them were rather recent, so they should not be too hard to find. If you have access to an impact wrench, you might not need the "special tool". If you don't have an impact wrench, you can make a tool using 1/2" all-thread rod and four nuts. Jam two nuts on each end of the all-thread, but leave about an inch of rod sticking out past the nuts. This tool will hold the damping mechanism that is inside the bottom of the fork tube while you turn the Allen screw that is outside the bottom.
Regards,
Jack

 

[kinnet]

Perhaps this thread will help for your forks:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=144447&highlight=Fork+Seals

You can find a picture of the homemade tool in post #11.

Good luck!

 

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. 007jag,

I just wanted to say "Hi" and invite you to my website where you'll find lots of GS lovin'. Please help yourself to the information I've collected.

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[007jag]

Great to get Feedback!

Great to get Feedback!

Hello again,
Well I picked up some Marvel Mystery Oil and put some down each spark plug hole. The plugs actually look pretty darn good and I'll let the oil sit for a couple of days and see if I can get her to roll over some.

While at the store getting MMO I looked at Diesel oil and found 5w-40 and 15W - 40,,, What weight would be right?? _ I think the manual calls for 10W-40 -- And is any brand good??

Also what brand of "sticky good" brake pads are the "hot ticket" these days?

I'm going to try my hand at getting a brake caliper apart tonight - never been inside one of those either -- Any tips??

BassCliff - thanks for the welcome.
Steve - thanks for the answers.
Kinnet - Thanks for the link!

Regards,
Jack

 

[Rkt-Rch]

With this web site and all the fellow gser's that bike will be back on the road in no time. I have the same bike and just brought mine back to life. I found mine with missing carbs and out in NH weather for "" years with nothing in the ports. It was frozen up when I brought her home, sprawed PB blaster down the plug holes and in the ports and let sit and repeated and worked it back and fourth (Ign bolt) and wala free and moving. I have put maybe 1100 miles on her so far and she still runs great. I don't even want to know what the cyl/rings look like LOL What part of U.S are you from?

 

[Steve]

While at the store getting MMO I looked at Diesel oil and found 5w-40 and 15W - 40,,, What weight would be right?? _ I think the manual calls for 10W-40 -- And is any brand good??

Yes, the manual calls for 10w-40, mainly because back in the day that these bikes were built, your choices were pretty much 10w-30, 10w-40, 20w50 or straight-weights. The 15w-40 in the white jug (Rotella) will be OK, especially if you only ride in the warmer months. The 15w part of the viscosity rating is for how it works in colder temps. It is a little thicker than either a 10w or 5w oil and will not flow as easily when the bike is first started. The 5w-40 oil in the blue jug (Rotella again) is a synthetic oil. The 5w will flow easier when the bike is first started and the 40 will be the same when the bike warms up. Being synthetic, it also tends to work better when warm and possibly last a little longer, but the transmissions in our bikes, which are lubed by the same engine oil, tend to shear the molecules, hence the shorter oil change intervals than for cars.

Also what brand of "sticky good" brake pads are the "hot ticket" these days?

Not sure if they're the "hot ticket", but I use EBC pads. Decent price and readily available.

I'm going to try my hand at getting a brake caliper apart tonight - never been inside one of those either -- Any tips??

Yeah, don't split the caliper unless you really need to. You usually only need to pop the pistons out, clean the bores with a scotch-brite pad, then clean the grooves and install new seals for the pistons. If you split the calipers, please spend the couple of bucks extra to get new o-rings for them. They don't usually go bad, but once you disturb them by splitting the caliper, it only makes sense to replace them.

.

 

[007jag]

Brakes - Lube & Lotsa cleaning

Brakes - Lube & Lotsa cleaning

Good morning,
I got distracted last nite, so I'll get the pistons out of the calipers today.
What about the master cylinder - Any insights as to what to watch for??

Also I did find that the right front brakes had worn more then the left side.
Is that an indication of a problem - or just more or less normal?

It seems I recall that more then one GS rider has blocked off the "anti-dive"
What would be your advice on that?
Any pro & cons on doing it?

I live in Portland, OR (Rkt-Rch) so we do get snow and temps in the freezing range. Not that I ride in the white stuff, but if it is clear I'll ride in the cold.
Should I look for a lube lower then 15W-40?

I was also thinking about tires, I used to ride Metzler me33 laser up front and me99 perfect on the back. I looked online quickly but it seems they don't make those any more. I went with the sport touring compound and usually got around 6k from the rear & 10k+ from the front.
One summer way back in the day, another rider had a Yokohama sport compound on the back of his bike, that he said had gone 12k and it still looked like new. So I tried it and loved the way it stuck like glue as I do like to attack a twisty piece of road. But that was right after I had put the Yosh pipe and jet kit in. and I was getting wheel spin shifting to 5th @ redline.
Needless to say I wore that tire out in 1200 miles. Later we went for ride together & I found out why his tire looked so new, he never pushed it - at all. And I ended up pretty much riding alone with him some miles back - lol.

Basically I'd like to find some tires with at least as good stick as the Metzlers - but more mileage would not be bad.
Any suggestions??

Regards,
Jack

 

[Steve]

What about the master cylinder - Any insights as to what to watch for??

You can get a rebuild kit for the master cylinder, it's about $15-20, usually. Not a bad idea. The biggest thing to watch for in the master cylinder is the little bleed hole in the bottom of the reservoir. This is just ahead of where the piston sits in the relaxed position and allows pressure to equalize between the caliper and the reservoir. If that hole is plugged, the fluid that is warmed by the friction in the calipers will expand, but have nowhere to go (usually it expands back into the reservoir), and it will press on the pads, making you slow down. Just blast some brake cleaner and/or compressed air through the little hole when you have it all apart and you will be good.

Also I did find that the right front brakes had worn more then the left side. Is that an indication of a problem - or just more or less normal?

Although not uncommon, I would not call it 'normal'. Probably an indication that the piston in the left caliper is hung up on some crud. Cleaning the piston and the bore, then installing new o-rings and seals should fix that.

It seems I recall that more then one GS rider has blocked off the "anti-dive". What would be your advice on that? Any pro & cons on doing it?

The reason many will block off the anti-dive is because it is tied into the brake system. When you squeeze the brake lever, the first bit of travel is used to move the anti-dive mechanism, which delays brake activation just a bit. It is also sometimes a bear to bleed the brakes properly because of the extra hoses and fittings.
The pro: Removing the anti-dive will firm it all up.

The con: The front end will dive a bit more when applying the brakes. This can be fixed by upgrading to Progressive Suspension springs and possibly using heavier fork oil.

I live in Portland, OR (Rkt-Rch) so we do get snow and temps in the freezing range. Not that I ride in the white stuff, but if it is clear I'll ride in the cold. Should I look for a lube lower then 15W-40?

If you keep your bike inside, the 15w should be OK, but lower would be better.

I was also thinking about tires, I used to ride Metzler me33 laser up front and me99 perfect on the back. I looked online quickly but it seems they don't make those any more.

Your ME33 and ME99 have been replaced by the Lasertec line. Don't know anything about them, other than the fact that they exist. Popular tires here include the Pirelli Sport Demons, Bridgestone Battlax BT45, Shinko 230 Tourmaster and Dunlop E3. I am sure there are others, but these are mentioned regularly. My own experience is limited to the Cheng Shin Hi-Max (no longer available) and the Dunlop E3. I went through three sets of E3s on my Goldwing, getting 21-23,000 miles on each set. The Hi-Max set was on my wife's 850L, and went just over 14,000 miles. Your mileage may vary, of course.

.

 

[007jag]

All was good - then.

All was good - then.

Hi Steve,
Hey can you give me some advice on how to pull the oil seal and other parts out of the fork??
I followed the link given earlier on fork seals and everything was working right up until the end.
Got the snap ring & washer out that sit above the oil seal, grabbed the inner tube and used it like sliding hammer. It started to pull the seal and got it flush with the top of the bottom tube, then the inner tube just popped out??

Now what??

I did try and get my screwdriver behind the seal and work it out - but it did not really work. Plus I did not want to damage anything as a couple of others have said you can re-use the old seal as a cover over the new when driving it in.

Thanks,
Jack

 

[Steve]

It has been a while since I have done fork seals, but I seem to remember that the hardest part was getting the two parts of the tubes apart. After using one like a slide hammer, when it finally came out, I don't remember any particular problem getting the seal out.

To put the new seals in, get a piece of 1 1/2" PVC tubing that is about 18" long. Cut a slit down the entire length so it can expand, if necessary. Make sure that one end is cut square (the original cut end works well), use that to apply even pressure to put the seals in place. I don't have any pictures handy of my PVC and will not be home for another week to take some, but will put that on my list of things to do when I get home.

.