How to test the starter?

[littleroot]

I got a good battery and good stator juice so I'm guessing my starter is gone. Over the last few weeks the kick-over has gotten slower and slower. Now I'm push starting it. :-(

So how can I confirm the trouble?

Thanks!
-Bob

 

[scrapper]

I took mine off and went to auto zone and then checked it wired up to my bike but not installed. I don't know if it is a good test because it would not have a load on it. I guess it may be good if it runs though. Sorry not much but that is what I am trying right now to get mine going. I ordered a rebuild kit from ebay. I had to run a ground wire from the solinoid mounting bracket to the battery once and that fixed a not starting problem? Good luck

 

[terrylee]

Could be the starter solenoid, try jumping with a screwdriver across the positive connection and the post with starter cable on it, if it starts it's a solenoid problem. Check to make sure it's properly grounded. Can also try connecting a temp. wire from battery and touch it to end of cable to starter and see if it starts. If all that works, it could be a bad, dirty starter button, might need a good cleaning. terrylee

 

[Big T]

In order

1. Test the battery - the symptoms you describe sound exactly like a dying battery
2. Jump the starter solenoid with a screwdriver as above - if the starter spins OK, then clean or replace the starter solenoid
3. If #2 fails, pull the starter and take the end cap off - all crudded up? Spray with electrical cleaner, check the brushes and polish the commutator (thet copper thing the brushes ride on). Reassemble and retest
4. Clean your starter button anyway. You love your bike, right? Warning, small parts and springs, disassemble in a zip lock.

 

[chuckycheese]

Could be the starter solenoid, try jumping with a screwdriver across the positive connection and the post with starter cable on it, if it starts it's a solenoid problem. terrylee

No offense, Terrylee (and BigT), but that is not right. There is always power going to the solenoid from the battery...always, unless the wiring is bad. If the 'screwdriver trick' works, all it means is that you're bypassing the circuit that is completed when you use the starter button....as well as all the wiring and connections that are in between.

It doesn't mean that the solenoid is bad....and it doesn't mean it's good. All it means is that you've got power between the battery and the solenoid as well as a legitimate connection between the solenoid and the starter. The solenoid is very seldom the problem because it's just a simple relay that is activated by the starter button.

The solenoid 'clicks' every time you successfully start your bike. If all goes well, you don't hear it because of the noise created by the starter and the engine turning over. If you hear the 'click', it usually means the battery has insufficient charge to turn over the starter or that you have a problem with the starter....or both.

I'm satisfied that the solenoid is, by far, the most incorrectly replaced part on these bikes. (By the way, my signature line is not new.)

 

[terrylee]

No offense taken,what you said makes sense. terrylee

 

[chuckycheese]

Thanks!

Thanks!

Thanks, Terrylee. You're a good man! (I got really interested in the subject several years ago because I'd had a number of problems and was totally 'stumped'.

 

[jbs80106]

+1 on cleaning and inspecting your starter. If your battery is good but can't crank, the cheapest place to look would be a dirty starter and/or worn brushes.

Easiest way to test is to pull it out. Apply some voltage and see if it spins.

Then take it apart, clean out the insides. Mine's been apart 2x. First time for cleaning and new brushes. 2nd time because one of the magnets came free and made starting it very unreliable. Some high temp 2 part epoxy and I was good to go once more.

It's a pretty basic part of the bike. One thing you can check first is the voltage at the starter...look under the little rubber cap thing and put a probe on the screw that holds the wire in. ..

 

[chuckycheese]

Armature

Armature

If it doesn't work right and the brushes look good, there's a good chance it can be the armature. One time, my starter worked only about half the time. The brushes looked great but the armature was really 'gunked' up.

I cleaned it up with steel wool (about 60 seconds) and it shined like new. I put everything back together and it's worked perfectly since....and that was just about exactly 2 years ago!:dancing:

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

I saved a bit of good advice from Mr. Steve:

Diagnosing Slow Cranking


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[trippivot]

I test starters with a tool called a shunt it goes in series on the main ground wire. it converts amps into micro volts so you can electric start a bike without ruining your meter as it is hooked up to check the starter/charging system/lighting system

*warning* do not electric start your bike with an ammeter hooked up ! you will pop the fuse or worse!

hit the starter and observe the amp draw. most good starters will pull 50 to 80 amps.

a bad one will pull over 120 or finally smoke the brushes you'll smell it when it gets that bad. if it is a electrical problem.

if it is a mechanical problem with bushings or armature you'll have to visually inspect for rub marks or out of roundness..

 

[littleroot]

update

update

Hi everyone.

So here is what I know so far.

I put the battery on a tender overnight and there was a little more cranking power. Barely. The battery is holding well at around 12.7 volts, even after many cranks.

I heard some weird noise like a decreasing rolling sound winding down at the end of each crank (which was performed on a cold motor without the choke so though it was turning over with every press of the button I was not actually trying to start the motor).

To capture this end-of-crank sound I decided to video record the operation but when I went back to do so the starter would not respond - all I have now is the click of the relay every time I push the starter button.

So I guess this rules out the relay and the button. Is it time to pull the starter out?

Thanks for your help!

-Bob

 

[littleroot]

Replacement starter died

Replacement starter died

TomMLC gave me a used starter off one of his part bikes and it lasted a while but now it is doing the same thing: There is a click from the engine when I press the starter button.

Since it has now done this twice normally I would say something is killing starters on my bike but if you saw the youtube videos I posted you know the old starter-guts had disintegrated.

I am going to pull the starter and test it. More youtube videos coming probably!

 

[blowerbike]

if your starter clutch tries to engage from time to time it will blow your starter apart or at least damage it.
am i correct that you had starter clutch problems in the past?

 

[blowerbike]

by the way..
thats one very nice shaftie you have there.
just an FYI.
i see it has radial slides on it and i bet it has a huge set of nuts when you twist it up.
if you don't have an H/D basket...your a prime candidate for one because of the added HP you have now.
also...
your engine will love you if you purchase a set of jay's APE offset oval air filters for it.
as i have preached in the past...the emgo's are trash and cost 28 bucks to your door for a reason...they really restrict your engines breathing from there small size and strange/odd shape/steps on the inlet side.
so you have a 700 dollar set of carbs with a 20 dollar set of filters..thats my point.
ok,
back to the starter problems.
if your alt. rotor has ever spun on the crank...the rotor gets larger(ID) and the crank gets smaller(OD)...this lets the rotor pull closer to the main bearing on the crank shaft when tightened and in turn will bind your stater clutch and let it engage at times and destroy starters.

 

[littleroot]

Hi,

Thanks for the compliments. She is not as clean as she was before I got her, but still pretty, and still pretty fast! It was probably you who told me to dictch the filters a while back and I was going to do just that someday - now I know which ones to look for, thanks.

Yes I have a 10-month old(?) "new" starter cluctch on there.

I just proved the starter itself is OK as I just pulled it and hooked up to the battery she is spinning hard. Of course there is no load! But the one I replaced recently would just sorta shudder when given juice.

Next step (reading earlier replies in this thread - gotta find my solenoid I reckon.

by the way..
thats one very nice shaftie you have there.
just an FYI.
i see it has radial slides on it and i bet it has a huge set of nuts when you twist it up.
if you don't have an H/D basket...your a prime candidate for one because of the added HP you have now.
also...
your engine will love you if you purchase a set of jay's APE offset oval air filters for it.
as i have preached in the past...the emgo's are trash and cost 28 bucks to your door for a reason...they really restrict your engines breathing from there small size and strange/odd shape/steps on the inlet side.
so you have a 700 dollar set of carbs with a 20 dollar set of filters..thats my point.
ok,
back to the starter problems.
if your alt. rotor has ever spun on the crank...the rotor gets larger(ID) and the crank gets smaller(OD)...this lets the rotor pull closer to the main bearing on the crank shaft when tightened and in turn will bind your stater clutch and let it engage at times and destroy starters.

 

[littleroot]

if your starter clutch tries to engage from time to time it will blow your starter apart or at least damage it.
am i correct that you had starter clutch problems in the past?

Just put the starter back in buttoned it all up and she is turning over faster than I can ever remember. I must have a short wire somewhere.

Hmmm

 

[littleroot]

if you don't have an H/D basket...your a prime candidate for one because of the added HP you have now.

OK, I give up - please tell me.

I googled for H/D basket but I have no idea what it is!

 

[blowerbike]

OK, I give up - please tell me.

I googled for H/D basket but I have no idea what it is!

this is a common modification for 16v. GS models or 8v. models with modifications.
a person sends there clutch basket to a company(s) APE is one to mention.
they dissemble and then add a thicker backing plate with heavier springs and larger rivets...everything is assembled and then welded.
with the extra power your bike is making...one day when you open the throttle and let her rev to redline...the clutch basket could separate and break the engine cases and multiply other parts.
go to jay's website and read up on this modification...APE.
FYI
your clutch basket is the same as a 80-82 GS1100E.