I think I suffered the dreaded rectifier issue...

[Overdrive]

Well, yesterday was a beautiful day for riding. Unfortunately, it didn't end too well for me. The 650 died on me in the middle of the highway and had to be towed home. As the thread title says, I think I got hosed by the rectifier issue.

The bike has aftermarket signals at rear from the first owner (I'm the 3rd), one of which suffered a burnt out bulb last weekend just as I was coming home from a nice long ride. I got a replacement for it yesterday and popped it in, good as new. So it was evening, around 7:45pm when I decided to take the bike out for a ride while taking care of some things (post office run, movie rental return).

Everything seemed just fine, and I always give the bike a very good look-over before I head out. Physically all seemed well, and the signals and lights were all functioning properly. So after the bike warmed up I headed out and got on the highway. I wish I could say I noticed something leading up to the actual moment of the problem, but the bike felt the same way it always has around the city and when I got on the highway.

When I was maybe just a little under 1/4 mile from my exit, as I'm switching lanes to head to the exit, going about 65mph, the bike suddenly lurches forward as though someone knocked the wind out of it. Revs were dropping very gradually, and any application of throttle was met with a bunch of sputtering and no acceleration. At this point I was a few hundred feet from the exit, and pulled over into the breakdown lane. The dash lights were flickering and dimming out, and the bike was just coasting to a stop the whole time. I put it in neutral and continued coasting, and stopped about 100ft. from the actual exit, at the very beginning of the ramp.

At this point I'm still trying to figure out what the heck is wrong. I thought maybe my fuel gauge lied to me and I was out of gas, or maybe I was spewing oil, or maybe the connectors for the battery leads came loose. As I'm looking all around the bike and behind me, I see no fluids on the ground, chain is intact, nothing seems to be out of place or amiss. The bike is idling poorly and the lights are still flickering. Turning the throttle still just gets a bunch of sputters and nearly no increase in RPMs...the bike's just struggling to stay on. My last act was flicking my turn signal switch to the right, which resulted in the machine shutting off completely, not a single light lit. I turned the key to off and back to on -- no dash lights, no neutral light, no head- or taillight. I pulled off the side cover and checked the battery. The connectors were on tight and no wiring that I could see looked burnt, broken, or otherwise damaged.

Called the family, who brought the car out to where I was and got the jumper cables out to see if the battery had just died. Nothing at all, not even dim lights.

I got the bike towed back to the house and hooked the battery tender up to the battery, leaving it overnight, again to try ruling out that it was just the battery dying. This morning I went out to the garage and found a fully charged battery, but still got nothing at all when turning the key to on.

So while I don't know what other possibilities might be out there for reasons for these symptoms, I do remember reading about the rectifier issues these bikes have, and how their demise can pretty much wipe out all things electrical on the bike. Can anyone tell me if what I've described is tell-tale for that issue or what other things I can check and/or do to find out what happened?

Here's some info about the bike:

1982 GS650E
2 P.O.s, second never actually registered and rode the bike. He had changed the oil and put in a new battery shortly before I pruchased it from him
approaching 23,000 miles (I've put on maybe about 600-700 of those)
no mechanical maintenance done since ownership other than having tires replaced and chain lubed and tensioned a few months ago.

Thanks for your time and help, everyone.

 

[Steve]

Well, now is as good a time as any to break out your test light and multimeter and get familiar with The Stator Papers.

There is a good, logical troubleshooting process in there that will have you checking a few things along the way. In no time at all you will find your problem.

If you do need a new r/r, contact Duaneage, a member on this board, to see if he has any on hand. He scours eBay for Honda units that are a bit more robust than the Suzuki units, tests them, then installs the correct terminals for our bikes. I think the last time I checked the price, it was about $40, which is a good deal. :clap:

Let us know what you find.

.

 

[intrigue175]

reg/rec issue

reg/rec issue

Hey over drive, I can't say i have had the exact same issue but i can say from working on my bikes with simular issues. That i would check all your grounds first and foremost then do your test to verify that your reg/rec is bad. Y ou honestly may just have a loose wire somewere or a bad electrical connection so start double checking and replacing your connectiopns that might need it. Good luck.

 

[Redman]

OD,

Some observations about your posting:
- There is more to the charging system than just the "rectifyer" that you mentioned.
- I noticed that in all your description you have not stated any voltage readings. You will want to have a volt-ohm meter to troubleshoot this problem. Other option is to start replacing expensive parts and maybe still not fix it. Is best to determine what part is the problem.
- Your problem may be other than the charging system. I say this for two reasons: 1) Charging system problems usally present themselve more gradually like slow turnover for a few starts then blinkers dont work or runs poorly for some time before it dies. And 2) you say you put on battery charger for all night and still does not start.

Tell us more of what you find. Plenty of folks here willing to help. You will want to have a volt-ohm meter.

.

 

[Overdrive]

Steve, intrigue, and Redman:

Thanks for the info. I'll start looking into the other things you guys listed before jumping into the stator papers work. As for what I saw there on the stator papers link Steve provided, I've got a 'stupid question category' question: since I can't even get the bike to turn on, should I just go for Test Phase C? All the other tests show a requirement to run the bike to take certain readings.

As for why there's no voltage readings, Redman, well that's because I haven't gotten than far into the troubleshooting. There wasn't a whole lot I could accomplish on the side of the highway with the sun going down. I'll have to start plugging away at it and putting some numbers up here this week.

 

[rustybronco]

As for what I saw there on the stator papers link Steve provided, I've got a 'stupid question category' question: since I can't even get the bike to turn on, should I just go for Test Phase C? All the other tests show a requirement to run the bike to take certain readings.

Charge the battery up and run it off the battery; then you can do the tests.

 

[mistertoadie]

He says the battery is fully charged. Sounds like there is a bad ground. The ground to the frame might be bad which would cause the problems he's having. When I brought my 1100 home it did the same thing, all the lights flickered and then nothing. the frame ground screw was loose. I tightened it up and it's been fine ever since.

 

[rustybronco]

OOOPppppssss! (guess I should have read all of his posts EH?)

fuse(s) blown?

 

[spyug]

Yup. The symptoms are pointing to bad grounds and or corroded connectors. Actually, it also sounds like the main fuse. Have you checked the fuse block and changed out the fuses?

You should definitely start with these and i'm thinking you might have something going on in the kill switch/ starter button area. I've heard of a corroded lead in the controls that caused very similar symptoms for guys on the XS board.

As you will read over and over bad contacts are likely the number one cause of electrical failures. Clean every connector you can find and replace any you can't properly clean. If you can't get a contact out of the plastic connector dunk the whole think in liquid cleaner like Tarn-X for jewelry.

Once you get the bike to run again you can then test the stator and the reg/rect. Don't jump to any conclusions that these are at fault until you can test properly.

With electrical issues it can be super frustrating and you can bounce around looking for a solution. The only real way to get it sort is to go at it systematically and the contacts are the starting point.

Check them over including those in the switch controls and the headlight bucket. You should also get a copy of your wiring diagram (see Bike Cliff's site) and you'l need a circuit test light in addition to your multimeter.

Go to it and let us know what you find. Trust me you will sort it.

Good luck,
Spyug

 

[twr1776]

#9 Today, 08:21 PM spyug Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,273
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Yup. The symptoms are pointing to bad grounds and or corroded connectors. Actually, it also sounds like the main fuse. Have you checked the fuse block and changed out the fuses?

You should definitely start with these and i'm thinking you might have something going on in the kill switch/ starter button area. I've heard of a corroded lead in the controls that caused very similar symptoms for guys on the XS board.

As you will read over and over bad contacts are likely the number one cause of electrical failures. Clean every connector you can find and replace any you can't properly clean. If you can't get a contact out of the plastic connector dunk the whole think in liquid cleaner like Tarn-X for jewelry.

Once you get the bike to run again you can then test the stator and the reg/rect. Don't jump to any conclusions that these are at fault until you can test properly.

With electrical issues it can be super frustrating and you can bounce around looking for a solution. The only real way to get it sort is to go at it systematically and the contacts are the starting point.

Check them over including those in the switch controls and the headlight bucket. You should also get a copy of your wiring diagram (see Bike Cliff's site) and you'l need a circuit test light in addition to your multimeter.

+ 1, all of the above will need to be checked and cleaned

The only real way to get it sort is to go at it systematically and the contacts are the starting point.

+ 1000

As Spyug says you MUST clean all contacts and grounds before testing the system. You will not get accurate results on you tests unless you start with the wiring.

 

[Overdrive]

Thanks guys. I haven't had a chance to even look at the bike...wedding the weekend prior (not mine), drill this past weekend...finally have a free weekend coming up so I should be able to get cracking on this soon.

Spyug, rusty-, twr, and mistertoadie, thanks for the advice and insight...and no I have not taken a look at the fuses yet. I'm putting together a list of all the stuff you guys put up here for me to check out. Is there a way for me to find out where all the ground connections are likely to be (manual, photos, etc.) so I know what areas of the bike to search? But you guys are also talking about cleaning pretty much any part of the wiring system that has a connector, right?

 

[duaneage]

These are 30 year old machines that have been ignored for 29 years in some cases. Check every plug and connector for corrosion, oil, damage, or loose fit. Get some contact cleaner spray from radio shack and have a good time cleaning all the connections, replace old bullets with new connectors since the alloy used today is better than the brass of 1980. There is nothing wrong with a bullet terminal design, just the material the old ones are made from.

Then replace the ring terminals on the grounds (black wire with white stripe) with new and remove the rust from under the mount. Use a new bolt or screw if possible.

Finally, don't forget the fuse holders for the fuses, the ignition switch and the switches on the handlebars, both sides.

I sell a lot of RR kits and while the Honda is robust and regulates better it does not correct bad connections throughout the bike. I should start including a letter that details how and where to look for bad connections but there are so many different GS bikes it's hard to create a general guide. Creating a standard RR kit was hard enough and I still find unique bikes with special wire lengths and connector differences.

 

[Overdrive]

Thanks, duaneage...about those bullet terminals: it seems the alloy and brass don't quite like each other, cause I tried hooking up some signals I bought with those alloy connectors to the brass and all I got was turning on, no flashing. Any truth to this, or just one of several possibilities?

The fronts didn't even have the connectors, just wires, so I had to make my own quick-disconnect setup and crimp them on to the bike wires to hook up the signals in the front.

 

[duaneage]

Thanks, duaneage...about those bullet terminals: it seems the alloy and brass don't quite like each other, cause I tried hooking up some signals I bought with those alloy connectors to the brass and all I got was turning on, no flashing. Any truth to this, or just one of several possibilities?

The fronts didn't even have the connectors, just wires, so I had to make my own quick-disconnect setup and crimp them on to the bike wires to hook up the signals in the front.

The brass and alloy don't have problems but they might be different gauges. Replace the male and females together and it's all good.

I resoldered the connections in the turn signals as they were beat. Used new wire too. Doing it one area at a time I managed to rewire most of the bike. I've never really had electrical problems since I am proactive in attacking the issues.

 

[spyug]

Good advice from mr. D on changing out connectors & contacts. I cleaned the contacts in the connector from my stator but only ever got 22Volts AC. Clipped off the connector and put on new spades then got 90+ volts AC on each leg.

I think for a good winter project it would be good to go throught the whole wiring harness and change out every connector and contact. As the D man says 30 year old brass gets real gungy.

If you have the time and coin it might be good to redo all the wiring ( if the bike was a keeper). maybe a bit at a time:-\\\

Good to hear you are getting to it.

Cheers,
spyug