idling/stalling issue...

[Fare]

I'm almost certain that this has been brought up, but I have not found anything specific (been searching all day instead of doing work =p)

I've finally gotten all (probably not all...) my electrical issues out of the way, so I decided to take my bike for a spin. Start on full choke and within 30 seconds, it's idling well well at ~1100 rpm. I have not been able to ride it yet, because of electronics (first bike too...), so I take it to a local club just to get used to it. When I get to the parking lot, I brake, and it stalls. after a few minutes or so playing with the throttle and whatnot, I get it start again and take it back home. I'm a tad learly taking it anywhere if it stalls that easily and won't start up right away, being my first bike (yea I know, even though I'm big (6'3 200lbs), it probably isn't the best starter bike).

My question is what should I look for and test? I'm the second owner, previous owner had it since he bought it in 82. I don't know what, if any, things he did to it. with that being said...

Am I looking at a carb rebuild? (don't mind doing, should I plan on doing it anyways and buy everything to do it?)
Is it a filter thing?
Its an adjustment problem?
????

Any advise is welcome,

Fare

P.S. Is there a laundry list of maintenance, common problems, things to look for? I keep looking for that coveted sticky that solves all problems

 

[nabrams]

This bike is "new to you" and you really have no firm idea of what is the current state your carbs, compression, valve adjustment, air leaks, exhaust system leaks, etc. I'm guessing that the bike has been sitting for some time as well.
There are MANY posts (some by me) that detail the minimal set of items that should be verified so that you don't endlessly chase your tail (play guessing games about what's wrong) - You will need to verify these items eventually - there's just no way around it. Do another search.
In cases like yours it is almost always more than one issue that needs to be solved.

Here's a post I put on another forum:

The process of reviving an old neglected bike has included the following steps for the four non-running bikes I've revived (the last being a 1980 CB750). It seems (from reading other's posts to this forum) we all go through more-or-less the same steps.

The following is not meant to discourage you. Just the opposite. I want to show you that many of us have been there and with some perseverance you can have a great bike for a fraction of the cost of a new one.
It took me a long time to work out all the kinks on my CB750. This site was a huge help.

Now for the hard realities:

1. Most mechanics will do more harm to your bike than good and you'll be paying them a fortune too. Many of us have horror stories. With that money you could get all the tools you need and a spare parts bike to boot.
2. You're going to need to invest between 30 and 60 hours of time wrenching to get that bike back in decent working order.
3. Do NOT attempt to troubleshoot poor running before doing a valve clearance adjustment. No amount of carb fiddling will do any good if the valves aren't closing fully (leading to below-par compression). Unfortunately, I learned this the hard way.
4. You will certainly have to go through the carbs yourself and verify EVERYTHING is in order. I'm assuming you've got a manual (or just print out the manual on this site).
5. Carb boot air leaks and/or exhaust leaks are almost certain on your bike, or any other 20+ year old, uncared for bike.
6. Almost EVERY 20+ year old bike will have electrical issues (coils and/or electrical rotor and/or stator, etc.) if it's all original equipment. See the stator papers for info on how to verify your charging system. Bad coils could definitely be a factor in top-end performance - coil performance degrades at higher RPM.
7. Once you get the basics worked out, you're going to have annoyances pop up at least once a season (leaking fork seals and the like).
8. Using the search feature of this forum and spending some time reading (and following the advice that there's a consesus on) will save you a TON of time.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[nabrams]

Here's some more:

If the bike has been sitting for some time you're going to have many tasks to perform before the bike runs properly.
Here's some advice I gave to somemone:
I've "restored" two GS450 bikes that had been sitting for long periods (mine and a friend's) so I've encountered almost all the typical issues.
You will almost certainly need to do a thorough carb cleaning. The fact that it started up is deceptive. It will not produce smooth, full power till you get those carbs spotless. Your air filter element, air box and all boots that connect to the carbs will have to be checked (any air leaks and all bets are off - see my other posts about this). Your regulator/rectifier and stator should be checked (as described in the garage section of this site). It is also likely that you'll have some loose and/or dirty electrical connections.
Some of the cables may need lubrication and adjustment. Of course, you will need a new battery.
If you've never done any of the above stuff then it will take you a while to learn it all and to acquire the right tools - anywhere between 25 and 60 hours of work - I'm trying to be realistic here based on my own experience. The second time I did a "restore" (on my friend's GS450) it went much, much faster. A Clymer's manual is a must.
If you're in no rush and you enjoy wrenching an hour or two a night then I'd say go for it. If not, you could take it to shop and pay an arm-and-a-leg for them to do half-baked job that you'll have to "finish up" - once again, I'm speaking from personal experience I had with a Honda many years ago.

Here's some more:
You had a running bike before the carb rebuild, so I'd guess your main problem is with the carbs. However, it is possible that other factors are just borderline enough that a slightly worse carb situation would expose those issues as well.
Before tearing the carbs down again, verify all the easy stuff first:
1. Put in brand new plugs - I can't tell you how much time I've wasted just to finally realize that my plugs were so wet and fouled that the bike had no chance of starting. This is especially common after doing carb related stuff.
2. Verify your air filter element and box and boots are all set up properly and that there are NO air leaks.
3. Using those new plugs, check that each one is sparking. If the bike is properly carbureted, even a faily weak spark should ignite the fuel/air mixture.
4. Verify that your petcock is letting fuel through to all carbs.
If all of the above checks out OK and you still can't get her started, then it's time to tear into those carbs again. Make sure your floats aren't leaking (there should be no liquid sloshing around inside of them) - I once overlooked that very important test and spent many hours fiddling with other things till I remebered to check if my floats were leaking. Sure enough, one of them was leaking like a sieve.

Also:
Your starter motor may be really dirty inside, preventing full electrical contact: been-there, done-that.

The 1980 GS450 is electronic ignition so there's no timing adjustment necessary.

Of course the gas tank must be drained.
Soaking the carbs in gas is useless, you must disassemble the carbs and clean them meticulously (especially if they've been sitting for two years).

 

[Fare]

Thank you, this was more or less what i was looking for, a list of things i need to check/do.

I will start by test/checking...

-Spark Plugs
-Valve clearance adjustment
-Air Filter
-Rebuild Carbs
-Clean Tank

Anything Else thats quick/obvious to add?

Thank you

 

[Fare]

Ok, so i pulled out the spark plugs, and this is what i saw...

ok, looking at http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html

I'm no expert but, is that Rich or cold?

Thanks,

Fare

 

[Fare]

Today i plan to clean the carbs and tank.

While i'm waiting for the o-rings to come in, i decided to start cleaning the tank. i have the tank off the bike and the remaining gas needs to be drained. is there a specific way to do this? I tried setting the petcock to prime, and only drops of gas come out (slow, few drops). does this mean that the petcock is bad as well?

Thank you,

Fare

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The petcock should flow well in prime. If not, it sounds like rust or dirt is plugging things up. That needs to be fixed first before any other work. Seal the tank if needed. With a cleaned petcock, re-check flow. If still not good flow, there must be something wrong in the petcock.
As for the plug read, that's rich. Depends at what throttle position you we're at to get that read. I'm assuming 1/4 throttle and less/just puttin' around town?
Could be lots of things to get that read. I can only assume the others are the same??
It could be something serious such as poor compression, etc, but you can try something simple first to see the effect.
Check that the air filter is clean. If it is...
Something that could darken the plugs and cause stalling is if the mixture screws are set too rich. If the factory caps are gone, it's likely someone may have moved them and moved them too rich. Your bike, if stock, generally has them about 1 1/4 turns out. If no problem moving them freely, adjust them using the "highest rpm method". Make a note of how far out they were from lightly seated.
Getting back to fuel flow, that will obviously cause it to stall but it won't darken the plugs like that.
Clean/seal the tank if necessary, repair the petcock for good flow, and check air filter and mixture screws. REMOVE any fuel filters as they cause more trouble than they help, and with a clean tank/petcock, you don't need a fuel filter. Test before getting into more serious stuff.

 

[Fare]

The tank was drained and it was very clean, much to my surprise. I was able to get flow after sucking on the vaccum(that sounds terrible =/) tube on reserve or on. Am i better off taking it apart and cleaning it or just buying another?

Going to start the carb cleaning process today sans new o rings...i'l just have the first one soak....alooong time.


I'm not going to worry about the spark plugs again till everything is ready again, carb clean, new air filter, valve clearence, carb sync etc. all the spark plugs looked like that one, and can they be cleaned?

Thank you again for your replies,

Fare

 

[Nessism]

The tank was drained and it was very clean, much to my surprise. I was able to get flow after sucking on the vaccum(that sounds terrible =/) tube on reserve or on. Am i better off taking it apart and cleaning it or just buying another?

Going to start the carb cleaning process today sans new o rings...i'l just have the first one soak....alooong time.


I'm not going to worry about the spark plugs again till everything is ready again, carb clean, new air filter, valve clearence, carb sync etc. all the spark plugs looked like that one, and can they be cleaned?

Thank you again for your replies,

Fare

You're on the right track here. Do all the maintance work up front before going any further.

Regarding the carbs, use the carb clean up article on the GSR home page and FOLLOW IT. Just a guess here but about 75% of the newbies are hesitant to break down the carbs fully to clean and thus they don't do the job right the first time and wind up back in there again. Some are back several times. Get those things clean and properly sealed. All orifices should be verified as clean by shooting carb cleaner spray through them (watch it come out the other side - if it doesn't, something is wrong).

Oh, and don't forget the carb boot O-rings. This is the number one problem on these old GS bikes (other than the carbs themselves).

Good luck.

 

[bradleymaynar]

Battery?

Brad bt

 

[Fare]

Well, I've hit my first snag during the carb cleaning. On the starter/choke assembly, theres a rubber washer-thing at the end, near the tip.

http://www.thegsresources.com/images/carbs/041_Remove starter plunger asbly.jpg
in the picture, its hidden around the base of the needle.

When i removed the rubber, i broke it. I thought it might be included in my o-ring set (amazing product btw), but it isn't. I'm guessing its crutial, but can i get away with a torn rubber? or should i pause, and see if they sell something that size at a hardware store??

Also, the pilot jet and whatnot, do i screw it in all the way (carefully) or am i suposed to leave it partial screwed in? (not covered in the cv cleanup series if i remember correctly)

Thank you,

Fare


The carbs do look pretty without all the gunk...

 

[omaharj]

Geez, I haven't had the pleasure of tearing down my GS carbs yet but I think that's a Viton O-ring that broke. A member of this forum,Robert Barr, sells them cheap. The Gurus must be on a coffee break. They'll be back.:-D RJ

 

[Fare]

I believe the vitron o ring is the ring inbetween the cylinder head and the intake boots.

 

[Guest]

If you have the o-rings from MR. BARR you have the o-ring for the choke plunger that sits between the carb body and the choke plunger. The outer piece I do believe you are speaking of is a dust cover and really isn't that important. You might want to get one in the future but it won't affect the choke function.

Screw in the main jet and pilot jet until snug.

 

[Fare]

Carbs cleaned/rebuilt: check
Airbox cleaned (oh god was that dirty...): check
Air filter replaced (the only filter that was on it was a piece of foam...) with K&N: Check
spark plugs and spark plug cap (boots?) changed: check
Intake books removed, cleaned, and o-rings replaced: check
tank didn't have any rust: check
Petcock replaced: check


valve clearence: ...um

ok, I'm all psyched to do my valve adjustments, until i realize that theres more to it than i thought (thought i was through with replacing items :'( ) I have a .004/.005 feeler guage, do i need more than that? i think with steve's sheet and my climer's manual, i can figure out the rest...

also, the cam gasket ripped, i have to replace it right? (more sadness...)

Thank you,

Anthony Novak

 

[nabrams]

The first time I did a valve adjustment it looked intimidating, but it really is not. It is, however, very time consuming, if you've got the shim-and-bucket system. And, if you don't have the right size shims it's a pain hunting them down (dealer, eBay, or wherever).

First of all, do a compression test (record the numbers) so that you can compare to the numbers you'll get after valve adjustment.
Second, get a proper set of feelers that go down to 0.0015 inch, and verify current clearances (measured when the cam is facing away from the shim). If you can't even get the samllest (0.0015 inch) in, then you know you've got effectively zero clearance - BAD (and very common on our old, uncared for bikes).
Third, get a proper manual (Clymer is usually decent) that will walk you through the adjustment process. Also, see the many posts on this site that have lengthy descriptions on how to do it - use the search feature.
Fourth, re-check compression and compare to values recorded prior to valve adjustment - you may have hugely improved numbers. If compression is still low then you've got bad rings or burnt valves, etc.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[Fare]

I wish I would have known it was more than a "adjustment" and would have worked on it earlier (this is probably another week I'll have to wait to ride -_-)

Before I was yanked away from my work and forced to spend time with the miss, I attempted to do a check. The cam (I'm guessing this is what its called, looks like a circle that grew a tumor) is perpendicular to the shim and I cannot get anything between it (bought a "master feeler" set, which had a .0015 inch as the smallest feeler (if I remember correctly)) I'll look into this compression test (hopefully I can do it with a broken gasket till my new one comes in).

Thanks,

Fare

 

[Fare]

So this is probably no good, but I can't get a .0015 in. feeler in most of them (5/8 ) (unless i'm doing it wrong...)

Do i have to buy that special tool to replace the shim or is there a way to do it without... i say that because it looks like i'd have to buy the tool, wait for it to ship, then take out the shims, play around with them, then probably order more... guess i should just assume i'm not going to ride this year...

 

[nabrams]

You've gone this far, and the cost of the tool is not going to break the bank. On some bikes, it can take weeks of riding/tinkering to work out all the kinks. You need to accept that if you expect to restore abused bikes with 45K miles on them.
What about compression numbers?

 

[Fare]

I suppose I can do that while I wait for the tool (ordered it today). I need to put everything back on (carbs, airbox, tank). I am waiting for replacement gaskets to come in, would a damaged gasket (valve/cam gasket) make a difference, other than oil leaking (don't know this for sure, just guessing that it would happen).

If I was a religious man, I'd say "god bless you Nabrams." Your posts resurrecting my threads from the 2nd or third page give me hope.

oh, btw, I'm not worried about the price of the tool. I would say that I'm impatient, but between z1enterprises, bikerbandit, my local dealerships (which I feel very uncomfortable being at...), fleabay, local auto places and (as little as possible) wally-world, I'm getting sick of buying things and waiting for them to come in. all part of the fun right? I'm sure that I'll be a master GS850 mechanic by the end of this...