ignitor box replacement options 1980 gs450ET

[surviverguy]

Looks like my ignitor is bad. I am aware of the Dynatek DS3-3c option. The DS-3C with coils costs $265-$300...Are there any other ignitor options?
There are lots of 2 cylinder bikes with electronic ignition besides GS's. What about swapping to a Ninja 250 ignitor? or some other common bike where finding used parts prices are easier to swallow (about $50 or less)? Has anybody replaced their twin cylinder gs ignition with anything besides (points from an old 400) or (Dynatek)? There must be some other options for tight wads like me...??????:?:

 

[Matchless]

Looks like my ignitor is bad. I am aware of the Dynatek DS3-3c option. The DS-3C with coils costs $265-$300...Are there any other ignitor options?
There are lots of 2 cylinder bikes with electronic ignition besides GS's. What about swapping to a Ninja 250 ignitor? or some other common bike where finding used parts prices are easier to swallow (about $50 or less)? Has anybody replaced their twin cylinder gs ignition with anything besides (points from an old 400) or (Dynatek)? There must be some other options for tight wads like me...??????:?:

There is! Try this: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=182719
Your bike has a mechanical advance and none built into the Igniter.

 

[Guest]

I have a feeling the signal generator uses different pickup coils, but I'm not 100% sure... Andre what's the impedance measure on yours? The stock 80 - 82 450 impedance is very low, 60 - 80ohms from memory...

 

[surviverguy]

I read those threads last night...about home building an ignitor box. I don't think I want to try to scavenge all the bits and pieces and then assemble/ build a homemade box- although I might give it a try.
I was thinking more along the lines of buying a used ignitor for some other make/model and splicing it into the electrical system (harness). Is the GS450 so special/unique- that there's nothing else like it triggering other motorcycle coils "out there"...?

 

[Guest]

I read those threads last night...about home building an ignitor box. I don't think I want to try to scavenge all the bits and pieces and then assemble/ build a homemade box- although I might give it a try.
I was thinking more along the lines of buying a used ignitor for some other make/model and splicing it into the electrical system (harness). Is the GS450 so special/unique- that there's nothing else like it triggering other motorcycle coils "out there"...?

Well when you are looking for a replacement , a GS250 uses the same box as a gs 450 that opens a few other doors

 

[Matchless]

I have a feeling the signal generator uses different pickup coils, but I'm not 100% sure... Andre what's the impedance measure on yours? The stock 80 - 82 450 impedance is very low, 60 - 80ohms from memory...

Pete,
The impedance for the GS550 is also 60 - 80 ohms it seems although I have not compared the pickups to see if they are are physically the same.
I think Kokar did mention which bikes his Igniter should work on and that some just had different connections

 

[Guest]

Pete,
The impedance for the GS550 is also 60 - 80 ohms it seems although I have not compared the pickups to see if they are are physically the same.
I think Kokar did mention which bikes his Igniter should work on and that some just had different connections

Cool, cheers Andre, I couldn't remember which 550 Kokar made it for. There are some with the same pickup coils and some with different ones from memory, been too long since my fun working it all out...

 

[surviverguy]

I'm still doing some detective work on this ignition system. I was studying the ignitor box on the bike and I noticed that the harness for the box between the box and its plug under electrical tape had some bulging....ie connectors/butt splices....I removed the box from the bike and started studying it closely. I removed the electrical tape to find that the six wires were all spliced. I studied the back of the box and could read writing in black magic marker "GS 550". I also noticed a hole for a wire in the rubber plug of the box.
I'm about to test continuity of the splices. Do we think the GS550 box would work on GS450 if the splices were good? The wire colors do all match on both sides of the splices. The black ground wire was not spliced. Did the 550 use 7 wires plus a ground? I am wondering about the hole for a wire with no wire...
If the splices all check out good with an ohm meter, I'm gonna check for voltage drop on the ground side. It's possible that the unit isn't grounded well enough. That's something I overlooked when doing other electrical testing...

 

[Guest]

I'm still doing some detective work on this ignition system. I was studying the ignitor box on the bike and I noticed that the harness for the box between the box and its plug under electrical tape had some bulging....ie connectors/butt splices....I removed the box from the bike and started studying it closely. I removed the electrical tape to find that the six wires were all spliced. I studied the back of the box and could read writing in black magic marker "GS 550". I also noticed a hole for a wire in the rubber plug of the box.
I'm about to test continuity of the splices. Do we think the GS550 box would work on GS450 if the splices were good? The wire colors do all match on both sides of the splices. The black ground wire was not spliced. Did the 550 use 7 wires plus a ground? I am wondering about the hole for a wire with no wire...
If the splices all check out good with an ohm meter, I'm gonna check for voltage drop on the ground side. It's possible that the unit isn't grounded well enough. That's something I overlooked when doing other electrical testing...

There are a few GS550 models that share the ignitor electrically, but use a different connector which is probably why the splices are there.

There's a few of the early 250's that share it also.

The way I worked it out was to use the parts cross reference on the Alpha Sports web site to find out which ones shared the ignitor. I'm not sure how to find the ones that use the same ignitor with the different connector other than to see if they have mechanical advance and to measure the impedance of the signal generator pickup coils.

Here's the list sharing the ignitor:

1980 SUZUKI GS250T
1980 SUZUKI GS450ET
1980 SUZUKI GS450LT
1980 SUZUKI GS450ST
1980 SUZUKI GS550LT
1980 SUZUKI GS550T & ET
1981 SUZUKI GS250TX
1981 SUZUKI GS450EX
1981 SUZUKI GS450LX
1981 SUZUKI GS450SX
1981 SUZUKI GS450TX
1982 SUZUKI GS450EZ
1982 SUZUKI GS450LZ
1982 SUZUKI GS450TXZ
1982 SUZUKI GS450TZ

If it's just your ground then you've lucked out... fingers crossed!

 

[surviverguy]

I'll have to learn what the term impedemce means. I did measure .2 vac created by each of the signal generators with the engine spinning and no battery power applied.
I wish I could find a list of other make/models with similar igmitors as there are very few used ignitors for gs450 1980 on the used market- often with large price tags!
I'm also thinking about the possibility of using two ignitors for single cylinder engines- one ignitor for each cylinder...If I could use currently produced hardware it would be cheaper and easier to resolve this little problem...
I might try posting some threads on some general motorcycle forums. It's just hard for me to imagine going to a forum besides GSR (LOL).

 

[surviverguy]

The splices all ohmed out good and ground checked out good. I guess the igniter box is bad. Couldn't find one with the right plug on it (1980 gs450). just bought an ignitor box from a 1982 GS750 off ebay (E-Pray) for $59.00.
It looks like the 750's in 1980 were still using points ignition. By 1982 they seem to have switched to electronic ignition. The 1982 GS750 ignition box has the same shape, also Nippendensco, and also has 7 wires. I'm planning/hoping to solder my connector onto this box to achieve spark!
Will keep you posted. Waiting on the mailman. Meanwhile I have a new meat for the mags to install. A pair of Bridgestone Battlax 45's just arrived.....and I'm also working on the paint of that old rusty fuel tank.
The fuel tank has already received wire brushing and sanding and three coats of primer with wet sanding between coats. Two coats of paint with wet sanding- yet pit marks were still showing...sprayed some more primer on top to be wet sanded and I'll try some more paint. Black paint is a real pita (showing every single tiny flaw).

 

[koolaid_kid]

I'll have to learn what the term impedemce means.

Impedance is just the AC equivalent of resistance. It covers both AC and DC (with the AC component ~=0), so it is more generic.

 

[Guest]

The splices all ohmed out good and ground checked out good. I guess the igniter box is bad. Couldn't find one with the right plug on it (1980 gs450). just bought an ignitor box from a 1982 GS750 off ebay (E-Pray) for $59.00.
It looks like the 750's in 1980 were still using points ignition. By 1982 they seem to have switched to electronic ignition. The 1982 GS750 ignition box has the same shape, also Nippendensco, and also has 7 wires. I'm planning/hoping to solder my connector onto this box to achieve spark!
Will keep you posted. Waiting on the mailman. Meanwhile I have a new meat for the mags to install. A pair of Bridgestone Battlax 45's just arrived.....and I'm also working on the paint of that old rusty fuel tank.
The fuel tank has already received wire brushing and sanding and three coats of primer with wet sanding between coats. Two coats of paint with wet sanding- yet pit marks were still showing...sprayed some more primer on top to be wet sanded and I'll try some more paint. Black paint is a real pita (showing every single tiny flaw).

There are two key things with the ignitors; one is whether the advance is mechanical or electronic, and the other is the impedance (or resistance) of the signal generator pickup coils.

If the impedance/resistance is wrong on the pickup coils, the coil won't generate the correct signal to trigger the ignitor into firing a spark, or, worse, it could actually trigger it at the wrong times.

The 450's have mechanical advance mechanisms, so it's important to use an ignitor that has no advance built in, otherwise you will be doubling your advance as the rev's rise.

Not sure if you've suffered through this yet, but have a browse through my previous pain on the subject:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=171781

 

[surviverguy]

Impedance is just the AC equivalent of resistance. It covers both AC and DC (with the AC component ~=0), so it is more generic.

I had googled it already, last night- "impedance"...I understand it now...and thank you..

 

[surviverguy]

There are two key things with the ignitors; one is whether the advance is mechanical or electronic, and the other is the impedance (or resistance) of the signal generator pickup coils.

If the impedance/resistance is wrong on the pickup coils, the coil won't generate the correct signal to trigger the ignitor into firing a spark, or, worse, it could actually trigger it at the wrong times.

The 450's have mechanical advance mechanisms, so it's important to use an ignitor that has no advance built in, otherwise you will be doubling your advance as the rev's rise.

Not sure if you've suffered through this yet, but have a browse through my previous pain on the subject:quote
Thanks Pete. I did read most- if not all of your trial and tribulations with the ignitor and your later triumph with the Dynatek. I honestly don't know if it'll work or not- but hey for $59 it seemed worth a try. I noticed the mechanical advance of my rotor. If the "new" box also has advance is built in- it will over-advance. I can watch timing with a timing light. It'll be real obvious as rpm's increase and the engine starts pinging if the box has built in advance. I might be able to lock the rotor from advancing or I might just try a different box and re-sell this "new" box, possibly at a small loss.
I'll be keeping my eyes open for the correct box at the right price....a spare would be nice.
Honestly it'll feel like an accomplishment just to get some sparks...- even if they occur at the wrong time. Fingers are crossed though for compatibility of course.

 

[surviverguy]

The 1982 GS750 did have mechanical advance- at least some of the models. I just looked at some of them...flyweights and springs!

 

[surviverguy]

as far as the impedance...I don't know...It'll either go or blow!

 

[Guest]

Haha yep indeed!

Watching with a timing light is a good call, although I think you're probably right... I think most stuff still had mechanical advance until '83 or thereabouts.

If it does have electronic advance, you can remove the springs and lock the rotor in place, but you'd need to check the advance spec's to make sure it's still appropriate for the 450 which you can do comparing the manuals.

In the meantime, good luck!

 

[koolaid_kid]

Haha yep indeed!

Watching with a timing light is a good call, although I think you're probably right... I think most stuff still had mechanical advance until '83 or thereabouts.

If it does have electronic advance, you can remove the springs and lock the rotor in place, but you'd need to check the advance spec's to make sure it's still appropriate for the 450 which you can do comparing the manuals.

In the meantime, good luck!

Depends on the bike. I know the 1100G models had electronic advance. All you have to do is go to a parts fiche and look at the signal generator. If it has a double spring loaded advance there, it has mechanical advance. If it just has a large cylinder with a bolt going through it it has electronic advance. Easy-peasy. The 82 750s had mechanical advance, BTW. All you have to do is figure out the wires.

 

[Guest]

Depends on the bike. I know the 1100G models had electronic advance. All you have to do is go to a parts fiche and look at the signal generator. If it has a double spring loaded advance there, it has mechanical advance. If it just has a large cylinder with a bolt going through it it has electronic advance. Easy-peasy.

Yup that's it... the rotors appear to be very different too.

The mechanical advance ones have two distinct chunky lobes on them, wheares the electronic advance ones I've seen are more like a disc.