*&^%ing starter!!!! GRR!!!

[jbs80106]

WELL...tried starting my bike just now and no-go. Still seem to have an issue in my starter. I had hoped [-o< by replacing the R/R and Stator and checking all ground connects I'd have fixed the problem by accident, but...

All I get when I hit "START" is the click of the starter solinoid. Checked the voltage and I'm getting around 12V at the bolt where the wire goes into the starter. I suspect its knackered.....

So I read in my manual that to remove the starter I have to:

- take off gas tank (not too difficult)
- take off carbs,
- take off cam chain tensioner thingie....
- undo bolts holding in said starter and go from there (check brushes, clean it, etc.).

How difficult is this going to be, scale of 1-10?

I've replaced stator which was probably somewhere in the middle, got everything back together okay but the carbs scare me....fear of the unknown I guess.

Can one remove the starter on a 650G without doing all the top disassembly? I thought I read on here that someone said you could but when I searched I didn't find it.

I need to go syphen out my gas tank and ponder my next course of action...

Everything so far as been pretty 'user friendly' so maybe this will be to.

As a side note: I've now put nearly 4 qts of oil into the bike. After the 3rd qt I was watching the glass peephole to catch the level and either:

- I need more oil or
- I've filled it past the oil glass hole checker with just 3 qts and missed it when it was in the middle of the F-L space....

Should I just keep adding? I'll be doubly bummed if I have to drain it all out again to fix the starter...shoulda known........

 

[rphillips]

Not real familiar with the 650, but most GS's take just under 4 qt. If you have someone to help, put the sidestand up, and lean the bike over to the left, while the other person watches the oil sight glass. If you are past full, you will see when the level falls into & below the sight glass. When you set it back up straight, you will see the level come back up & out the top again. The 650 may be different, but I don't remember taking all that stuff off, just to get the starter out. Take the starter cover off & see if you can get a socket on the 2 bolts at the rear of the starter. Get them out, and the hot wire is all that's left. If it don't work, then take that other stuff off

 

[jbs80106]

Thanks.

Thanks.

BTW...if i do have to take it all apart, do I HAVE to empty the tank or will the vacuum petcock keep the gas in? Just wonderin'. I'll try to get it out without touching anything else.....

 

[jbs80106]

ah...no need to syphen

ah...no need to syphen

read manual, I just need to hook up fuel line to the engine side of petcock, turn it to prime and drain it into my gas can...no worries there....

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

The vacuum petcock if working will stop the fuel flow-- No need to drain the tankUnless you have very small hands you will need to remove the carbs in order to remove the starter IF you are going to take the starter apart get a set of brushes www.stockers.com DO NOT over tighten the long starter bolts

 

[jbs80106]

since I'm going to do this....

since I'm going to do this....

I saw this in another posting and seems like a good starting shopping list.
After getting the starter sorted out (whether brush replacement/clean or replace the whole thing), when I reassemble what other things should I go ahead and do?

Carbs/bike were running fine before starter fitzed out, so rebuilding them is probably something I'd be inclined to NOT do at this stage, unless its highly recommended.

- cam chain tensioner seal does leak, so I'll replace them...

- don't know if 'intake boots and o-rings' are accessible without taking the carbs apart....

-check/adjust valve clearances?

- "Verify that float heights in carbs are set correctly. 1/2 mm makes a difference -- you might want to set them at the lower end of the acceptable range or .5mm less. (This makes the midrange a bit richer and smooths off-idle transitions.)" -- sounds like I may not have the tools for this, have to check the manual.

- Open idle screws to 2.5 - 3.5 turns out (from the factory they're normally set very lean, around 1 to 1.5 turns out) - probably should look into this...often I have to keep a bit of throttle on to keep her from stalling at a traffic light (I think I can do this after reassembly so I can run it and adjust to get the RPMs at the right idle spot

- Sync carbs (VERY important) yikes, do I have to do this if I don't get into them, just remove them? Sounds like its maybe more advanced that what I might want to do.....thoughts????


Are there any other seals I'll have access to that I should change out? Might see about having the tank repainted while its off the bike. I may be a bit reluctant to do these challenging things 8-[ but then I know if I've got the tank/carbs off now its the right time to tackle them.[-o<

thanks for the suggestions, back to reading the manual......

 

[nabrams]

The starter has nothing to do with the R/R and stator charging system. When you first start the bike the charging system is not even active.
You say the bike was running well before the starter fizzed out - meaning, while still owned by the previous owner?
I'm guessing from your post that this bike is "new to you" and that you really have no firm idea of what is the current state your carbs, compression, valve adjustment, air leaks, exhaust system leaks, etc. I'm guessing that the bike has been sitting for some time as well.
You can try to push start the bike, to see how the bike runs before disassembling the carbs, BUT I strongly suspect that you'll find that it won't run well in all RPM ranges - at least partially due to seriously gummed-up carbs.
If your bike has been dormant for a significant length of time it is almost certain that you'll have other issues as well (air leaks are VERY common as well). There are MANY posts (some by me) that detail the minimal set of items that should be verified so that you don't endlessly chase your tail (play guessing games about what's wrong) - You will need to verify these items eventually - there's just no way around it.

 

[jbs80106]

Good reminder on power flatness...

Good reminder on power flatness...

I ran fine for me last year. PO had never gotten it out of his neighborhood and was surprised when I would regularly take her on 1-2 hour rides. I discovered after the 1+ hour rides, when I got home, she wouldn't restart...battery was low. Check out my wires and had some loose connections. Fixed them in July and the charging problem went away. Then in maybe September started having starter problems, push the button and the soliniod would click but no starter engagement. Finished out the riding season with a push start when needed and just wouldn't shut er off until I got home. Had already bought R/R and Stator over the summer and decided to swap them out over the winter.


I noticed a 'flat' spot in the power range when riding last summer. I seem to recall it was when getting on the throttle around 65-70mph there wasn't much pick up at all for a few hundred RPM and then she'd start accelerating again....

could that be gummed up carbs? Going to dig in on Saturday. Reluctanly deciding to 'do it right' rather than just fix the starter and cross my fingers something else won't need fixing in 3 months. Once I get the gas can off and the can see into the carbs a cleaning is probably in order, PO supposedly had carbs redone a few years ago.....

 

[twr1776]

If it ran good except for a little hesitation try some of the gas cleaners recommended in other posts and you might get lucky on the carbs. You should do a compression test first to verify you have no other major engine issues before spending the money on the other items. The items previously mentioned will need to be done or verified to get the bike back into top condition. It is time and money consuming but you will be rewarded by a summer of riding with no worries. Good Luck

 

[jbs80106]

starter parts question....

starter parts question....

Okay,

I'm looking at the schematic on bikebandit.com (http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandi...pt_id~987987~model_dept_name~GS650GZ.asp#stay) and have a question.

My starter insides look okay but I wanted to replace the brushes. Do I just need to order two Part number 490955-001 (Number 9 in the listing) and replace the brushes, or do I also need to order the Brush Plate (Item Number 7)?

Call to my local Suzi dealers and they want to sell me both of these parts for a total of $40.00.

Thanks.

 

[nabrams]

Well, you got the starter out - good.
Now, before buying all sorts of parts for it, have you simply cleaned the inside and applied power to it (while off the bike) directly?
If it works, then hook it up to your bike's wiring in the normal fashion but don't engage the starter gear. If it spins freely when you press the starter button, then fully install it (engage starter gear).
Now try it - If it doesn't turn your engine over then there's either an unsually high resistance siphoning power on the way to the starter (check voltage right before the starter), or the starter motor itself is deteriorated (which can/does happen).
All of the above assumes you have good, clean connections, of course.
If the voltage at the starter is more than 1/2 volt less than battery voltage then you've got a serious resistance (power draw) in the wiring leading to the starter (like corroded wires and/or dirty connections).

 

[jbs80106]

Great idea...

Great idea...

Before taking it apart my neighbor and I hooked it up to a battery and it didn't turn at all. Took it apart and cleaned it up but haven't yet reassembled it to see if it'll turn. Figured since I pulled it it would make sense to replace the brushes.

original brushes seem to be crimped on to the plate that holds them. Replacing just the brushes would require cutting the pigtails and soldering them so maybe that's why the dealer seems to sell a whole assembly.

I'll put it back together this afternoon and see if it will spin. Wasn't a big deal to get it off in the end....though haven't reassembed the bike yet either.....

 

[bwringer]

It only takes 10-15 minutes to remove the tank, airbox, and carbs on a GS, but for some reason people are scared to death of this task. As you've discovered, it's much easier than exotic contortions to work around the carbs.

Stocker's Starters might have the brushes and/or brush plate for a lot less than a Suzuki part.
http://www.stockers.com

Even if you don't see your starter on the site, call or email and I bet he'll be able to help out. Very nice, helpful guy.

 

[t3rmin]

It only takes 10-15 minutes to remove the tank, airbox, and carbs on a GS, but for some reason people are scared to death of this task. As you've discovered, it's much easier than exotic contortions to work arou

Taking them off is no problem! Getting the carbs *back* into the airbox boots can be a source of great consternation. ;-)

 

[bwringer]

Taking them off is no problem! Getting the carbs *back* into the airbox boots can be a source of great consternation. ;-)

And that's how you know you need new boots! \\/

 

[jbs80106]

ah....

ah....

that will be the next issue, one at time though.....:-D

 

[jbs80106]

Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhooooooooo!!!!!!!!

Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhooooooooo!!!!!!!!

A GREAT BIT THANK YOU to all of those on the site who helped and encouraged me!

:-D

Cleaned the brushes.....reassembled the starter (what a pain!)...but noted that I had to push the brushes back a smidge to get it back on the spinning thing so still have some wear in them.....

Hooked it up to the battery....hit start and it SPUN!!!!!

Got it back installed (again....Grrrr!!!!)....tried the start button...cranked!!!!

Put everything back together, getting the carbs on the motor side was much easier than getting them on the airbox side...but did it....

Cranked her a few times, gave her some choke and switched to 'prime'....

SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!

\\/

Let er warm up, check that all 4 pipes were getting hot, then rode her around the block a few times for about 10 minutes. Now she's back in the garage waiting to see if she leaks at all from having replaced the stator....

Think I may have too much oil in it, as on the side stand the oil level is still above the bevel...

But she ran!!!!! SUCCESS!!!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!

My first successful mechanical repair on anything....

\\/

Now here's hoping she cranks up again and it wasn't a one off......[-o<

 

[nabrams]

Yeah, I've had to clean out several starters to get them working to full capacity again. It's a shame so many people just plunk down big bucks for a new starter when all they really need is a decent cleaning.

 

[Nate_uk]

congrats on your successful repair!
this thread was an interesting read as on the odd occasion my GS850 starter makes an ARRRRRRRGH noise (not too sure how to type the noise it makes). It has a new battery and the wiring's in good nick so I'm thinking it may be the brushes, although I have to sort out the carb issue first though 8-[ lol

Nate

PS - the funny thing is I have problems getting the carbs into the engine side intake rubbers, but then I have new intake rubbers on the airbox which go on easy.

 

[omaharj]

It only takes 10-15 minutes to remove the tank, airbox, and carbs on a GS

, but for some reason people are scared to death of this task. As you've discovered, it's much easier than exotic contortions to work around the carbs.

Stocker's Starters might have the brushes and/or brush plate for a lot less than a Suzuki part.
http://www.stockers.com

Even if you don't see your starter on the site, call or email and I bet he'll be able to help out. Very nice, helpful guy.

Ten or fifteen minutes????? For YOU maybe. My bike was down till the next weekend(Chipped an intake boot and ordered new)