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I've had it with this GD bike

  • Thread starter Thread starter ShirleySerious
  • Start date Start date
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ShirleySerious

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As you all may know, I've been having oil leaks for the past 3 months. I just put in a new RealGasket today, with the guarantee that it would solve all my problems. WRONG! It is leaking even worse. I torqued all bolts well and even the recommended 15-20 ft-lbs seems too tight. I don't know what to do with this POS. This has been going on for so long and to have setback after setback, it just doesn't seem worth it.
 
ShirleySerious said:
As you all may know, I've been having oil leaks for the past 3 months. I just put in a new RealGasket today, with the guarantee that it would solve all my problems. WRONG! It is leaking even worse. I torqued all bolts well and even the recommended 15-20 ft-lbs seems too tight. I don't know what to do with this POS. This has been going on for so long and to have setback after setback, it just doesn't seem worth it.
Click to expand...

Just imagine if you had to do this for a living with time constraints and warranty by gosh heheh. Sounds like time to either give up (you're rich), or step back and cool off......have a think about this problem........you mentioned having a new gasket of some sort, and torquing.......One thing OFTEN overlooked by amateur mechanics is to check the mating surfaces to see that they're not just undamaged and clean but parallel. Torquing, always recommended, needs considerations also......torque sequence AND BRINGING UP the torque in at least 2 steps is sometimes overlooked AS WELL AS WHETHER THREADS ARE CLEAN AND OIL FREE (both male and female parts).....even a small amount of oil (unless specified) results in extreme overtightening - bolts/screws stretched and/or parts distorted = leaking.
Also with regards to torquing......your results are only as good as your method AND THE ACCURACY / QUALITY of your equipment. Cheap torque equipment is often quite variable......and costs you money rather than saving it. Torque methods such as using offsets or long extensions and/or wobble drives or universals may result in poor results even with good equipment.

Putting some types of sealers ON gaskets can negate all the care above if they cause uneven hydraulic pressures on the gasket......Partially or fully cured silicone type sealers are one of the worse uses here.

Fasteners stretch when tightened and even good fasteners are only suitable for a few reuses in SOME situations. You mentioned 15-20 ft-lbs and this brings to mind that you're likely torquing something like M8 (5/16") 10.9 (Gr8) threads or larger. Are flat washers used in this application? If so do you have the correct ones (softer ones may gall and cause the torque to come up before the correct clamping load is obtained). Often, although the threads may be specified dry, a light oiling of clamping washers is required so that the torque translates into correct fastener stretch = clamping load.

Hopefully this birth to death can sink in while having a cold beer there!

It "might" also be time for a set of experienced hands or eyes to help you out there.

My .02 worth.:-D
 
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You have the torque wrong! Should be xxxx inch-lbs.
 
Shirley you can't be Serious!

Last post is correct ... you are tightening the realgasket WAAAY to tight! Those gaskets are very convenient when you are constantly going back into the motor to make adjustments, etc, but a few of the Chicagoland guys have stopped using them because they require expertise and a delicate touch to get right, AND because the torque settings are so light you have to be vigilant to make sure the bolts don't back out.

My suggestion is that you go back to standard gaskets. If you make sure the mating surfaces are absolutely clean and use just the slightest touch of oil on a standard gasket you'll get a good seal which is removable later. Be careful not to overtighten the bolts and make sure you gradually tighten all the bolts following the tightening sequence outlined by the repair manual (as already mentioned).

It sounds like it's definitely time to walk away and take a breather before getting back to it, and get a friend involved when the time comes to try again. How bad is it leaking? Can you ride it over here? I'd be happy to give you some help if you can...

Regards,
 
After years of seeing torque measured in nothing but foot-pounds, I kinda read over the part where it says inch-pounds. That might be the first problem. But after busting my ass with regular gaskets and now this supposedly better one, I don't think I can have the patience to go back to a paper gasket. The paper it came with even said that it can seal well on uneven surfaces.

Steve, it's not leaking terribly, but there is some smoke visible in the headlight beam when stopped. Would I be able to stop by later today (Sunday) to have you take a look at it?
 
ShirleySerious said:
After years of seeing torque measured in nothing but foot-pounds, I kinda read over the part where it says inch-pounds. That might be the first problem.
Click to expand...

That is the major problem as it means you were trying to torque 12 times the value. The chances for serious damage having occurred are there - hopefully you'll be lucky or at least able to salvage the mistake. Be aware that inch-lbs (accurately this is actually lbs-inch!) is a very common torque unit used for assembling all types of machinery. Also note that, just as common, are 2 common metric units which aren't always written with their imperial equivalents. These are metric and are Kilogram-meters and also Newton-meters (not equivalent to each other). Lots of current model torque wrenches and equipment may be scaled in these alone or with imperial scaling.......easy enough to line up with the incorrect side if you're not paying attention.

Most of us who repair a lot of stuff have had an episode like yours at some point so you're not alone there - just grin and call 'er a learning day!

With respect to paper or other types of gaskets, I often use them and yes they'll fill minor imperfections when used carefully. I often use Permatex "High Tack" when assembling these, at least on one side (good stuff). Just as often, I often use an anerobic sealer by itself if specified, or even if losing the gasket won't impair some other clearance or assembled dimension.
 
Well, Josh stopped by earlier today and we talked about how to remedy the problem. Unfortunately, he overtorqued the bolts and there is a stress crack in one of the reinforcing parts of the valve cover. It's not serious, and I'm cautiously optimistic that when he removes the valve cover it will spring back to it's proper position. When he gets it back to me in the next day or two I'm going to use HTS-2000 (high tech brazing rod) to repair and reinforce the cracked area, and assuming it does spring back the repair ought to do the trick.

Then he'll make sure the surfaces are squeaky clean and he'll reinstall the Realgasket with the proper torque. It ought to do a good job of sealing any minor warpage that remains after the repair - with luck there won't be any, though!

Regards,
 
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Hopefully the gasket isn't cut through. That's usually what happens when you over torque a RealGasket...
 
read twice; torque properly. j/k

We've all made mistakes and sometimes we end up doing things more times than we care to admit, but as long as we solve the root of the problem it'll be all good.

There's still plenty of good riding to be had.
 
I'll admit that I misread the instructions. I went over this problem with Planecrazy today and verified that a torque wrench that can be measured in inch-pounds is a rarity. In the absence of that tool, he said the best thing to do was to make the bolts finger tight and use 1/4 of a turn with a socket and to keep an eye on the gasket regularly.

He noticed a crack in the cover which will be fixed soon, so once that's done, I'll update on the leak situation.
 
ShirleySerious said:
I'll admit that I misread the instructions. I went over this problem with Planecrazy today and verified that a torque wrench that can be measured in inch-pounds is a rarity.
Click to expand...

I'll advise that inch-pound torque wrenches (and torque screwdrivers) are actually very common and are used several times a week by many mechanics and other technicians in various trades. Typically they appear in 3/8" and 1/4" square drive, with the former sometimes being more readily available on the shelf. Where you won't typically find them (or good ones) is at the cheapo discount tool stores, general department or hardware stores. Pretty much any automotive or industrial tool supply company (and many speciality repair parts depots like appliance and commercial HVAC parts suppliers) often have them right there or not far away.
 
I think we had a minor miscommunication. What I meant to imply is that the average shadetree mechanic doesn't often possess an inch/pound torque wrench... Sure they can be had, but they tend to be a bit pricey for how little the average person would tend to use them.

I also suggested that Josh check to see if any other Chicagoland GS'rs DO have one that he could borrow (wouldn't be too surprised if Joe Nardy has one, especially since he has used a Real Gasket on his bike in the past), as well as check with the other Chicagolanders who have used RealGaskets successfully to see if they had some real world suggestions regarding torquing them/etc.

What I've learned personally from talking to those people is that the bolts are literally so loose that you have to be vigilant about constantly checking and rechecking them so they don't back out. If I recall correctly, using thread locker can be problematic given the fact that people who use Realgaskets often do so because they're constantly taking the valve cover off to make other adjustments, so would constantly be needing to deal with old threadlocker compound - more trouble than it's worth...

Regards,
 
The problem I've had finding lbs-in wrenches is that they don't go down low enough. Most I've found don't start until 20 or so. Even the one's I've found at Sears are tricky.

I think my manual states 6 lbs-in, which transfers to 72 lbs-in. Is this a misprint?
 
txironhead said:
The problem I've had finding lbs-in wrenches is that they don't go down low enough. Most I've found don't start until 20 or so. Even the one's I've found at Sears are tricky.

I think my manual states 6 lbs-in, which transfers to 72 lbs-in. Is this a misprint?
Click to expand...

That should read 6 lbs-ft, which is equivalent to 72 lbs-in.
Check out 1/4" drive if what you're finding in 3/8" drive doesn't go low enough.
(or better quality 3/8" drive units).
 
I always did finger-tight plus a bit with the wrench until they were all in there solid and even. Never leaked a drop. So I can confirm that's one way to deal with a RealGasket.
 
I thought I might post an update.

I put the Real Gasket on the shelf after finding a leak in front center of the valve cover. I took a tip from Planecrazy and got some Form-a-gasket. After following the whole procedure, I took it for a ride tonight. After about 5 miles, I saw some smoke. I went back home and took a look at it. First I checked the usual places; the places it's been leaking on and off at for the past few months. So far, I think the Form-a-gasket did the trick because there weren't any visible oil leaks. So where did the smoke come from?

This is what I'm thinking (can anyone confirm this). I haven't cleaned the engine since I made the gasket, so there's still a small bit of oil left over from when it was leaking. No puddles or anything, just a coating of oil and dirt in some places. Would that be enough to make it smoke? I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but it was pretty humid tonight.
 
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