Jet Needle Question URGENT

[Rick65Cat]

I'm working the carbs on my work bench from my `78 GS1000.

I've had the jetting done at a shop but I have doubts they adjusted the needle jets in the slides. (They increased the mains from 95 to 102.5)

Can anyone tell me what the FACTORY LOCATION was for the "C" clip on the needle?
Theres 5 grooves and right now its in the middle one.

Hate to sound like "I WANT AN ANSWER NOW DARN IT!!" but I want to get it buttoned up today.

I guess I'm just trying to set a base as to whether or not they were touched. If the needles have been adjusted then I can back them off 1 notch.....if they HAVEN'T been done then I need to figure out why its running rich elsewhere in the system.

And since they're out of the bike now, I could get the first adjustment out of the way then go from there.

 

[Guest]

Third clip

 

[srsupertrap]

I'm working the carbs on my work bench from my `78 GS1000.

I've had the jetting done at a shop but I have doubts they adjusted the needle jets in the slides. (They increased the mains from 95 to 102.5)
Can anyone tell me what the FACTORY LOCATION was for the "C" clip on the needle? Theres 5 grooves and right now its in the middle one.

Bumping the mains by 3 to 4 sizes works if you have a 4 into 1 installed. #3 is the factory setting. It should not be running rich if the bike is stock except for the 4 into 1. Next determine whether you have the stock needles installed (5DL-36's). Maybe the PO replaced them? The other day you asked about the pilot & air jet setting, have you set those. Did you replace the O-rings?

Basscliff's website has the GS1000 service manual which has all this & more information

 

[Rick65Cat]

K....

I know zilch if internal engine mods have been done.

-There is a Mac 4 into 1 on the bike with the fibre packing(?) still on the baffle. (Its fairly quiet)

-The stock airbox and lid are still on the bike as is the stock paper filter.

-And yes, I have replaced ALL the O-rings except for the choke plungers and the fuel cross feed tubes.

-I screwed the pilot and side air screws back in exactly where they were when I took it apart.
pilot was 1 1/4 out and the side air screw was 1 1/2 out.

-Yes the needles are stamped 5DL36.

An example...the service manual says "pilot air jet - 1.2" Whats the 1.2 mean?... mm?... turns out?

Thanks for the patience guys.

 

[srsupertrap]

The 1.2 pilot air jet is just the size and has nothing to do with turns out. Okay it sounds like everything is stock VM26 carbs. Since you replaced the intake boot, pilot jet and side air screws o-rings I would next check the float level height in all four carbs. IIRC it's set to .95" but check the service manual. Then do a bench synch on the slides, use a gage pin or small screwdriver inserted in the throttle bore in the exact same position to get your slides (4X) in a ball park adjustment.

I would recommend turning both pilot jet & side air screw out one full turn so it running just a little lean. That way you can turn the screws out to achieve the high idle. BTW what is the size of the pilot jet, it should be a 15; a 17.5 could be causing grief on a stock motor. Install new B8ES plugs start her up and report back.

Forget to mention the importance of a carb synch @ 3000 rpm once you have all the screws adjusted correctly

 

[Guest]

K....

I know zilch if internal engine mods have been done.

-There is a Mac 4 into 1 on the bike with the fibre packing(?) still on the baffle. (Its fairly quiet)

-The stock airbox and lid are still on the bike as is the stock paper filter.

-And yes, I have replaced ALL the O-rings except for the choke plungers and the fuel cross feed tubes.

-I screwed the pilot and side air screws back in exactly where they were when I took it apart.
pilot was 1 1/4 out and the side air screw was 1 1/2 out.

-Yes the needles are stamped 5DL36.

An example...the service manual says "pilot air jet - 1.2" Whats the 1.2 mean?... mm?... turns out?

Thanks for the patience guys.

Cross tubes may not have orings. Wrap em with teflon tape to tighten em up.

 

[Rick65Cat]

The 1.2 pilot air jet is just the size and has nothing to do with turns out. Okay it sounds like everything is stock VM26 carbs. Since you replaced the intake boot, pilot jet and side air screws o-rings I would next check the float level height in all four carbs. IIRC it's set to .95" but check the service manual. Then do a bench synch on the slides, use a gage pin or small screwdriver inserted in the throttle bore in the exact same position to get your slides (4X) in a ball park adjustment.

I would recommend turning both pilot jet & side air screw out one full turn so it running just a little lean. That way you can turn the screws out to achieve the high idle. BTW what is the size of the pilot jet, it should be a 15; a 17.5 could be causing grief on a stock motor. Install new B8ES plugs start her up and report back.

Float height is bang on at 24mm, (did both sides of each float) spec calls for 23 to 25mm.

All slides were exactly the same height.

As for the pilot jet...you mean the one on the bottom of the bowl thats adjustable when the bowl is on? If so, how can you tell the size? Theres no stamping on it.

4 brand new B8ES's on the work bench waiting to go in.

 

[srsupertrap]

As for the pilot jet...you mean the one on the bottom of the bowl thats adjustable when the bowl is on? If so, how can you tell the size? Theres no stamping on it.

No the pilot jet which resides in the float bowl. It's directly adjacent to the main jet. Check this out Page 3, this will show the VM carb parts and the difference between the pilot fuel screw (outside) and the pilot jet (inside the bowl). This things sound stock but we are just verifying or like nessism likes to say to measure is to know. . . .

http://www.thegsresources.com/files/vm_carb_rebuild.pdf

 

[Rick65Cat]

No the pilot jet which resides in the float bowl. It's directly adjacent to the main jet. Check this out Page 3, this will show the VM carb parts and the difference between the pilot fuel screw (outside) and the pilot jet (inside the bowl). This things sound stock but we are just verifying or like nessism likes to say to measure is to know. . . .

http://www.thegsresources.com/files/vm_carb_rebuild.pdf

Ohhhh....you mean the "bleeder" AKA pilot jet....gotcha.

(returns 5 min later)

The new ones from my rebuild kits are #15's and the old ones I pulled out are also 15's.

Well....I'm just going to put the carbs back in as they are with the new kits and O-rings in them and see how the plugs look. I'll leave the clips on the needles where they are on the #3 groove.
Go do plug chops and see.
If anything, I'll lower the needles one notch to lean it out.

The only jetting change done I can see was the mains. They are now 3 sizes bigger than stock. But that should only come into play under WFO throttle.
When I first start it and warm it up, I'll adjust the side screws for idle then take it for a spin.
Maybe the internal passages were just dirty. I don't know.
I dunked the whole carb assembly in fuel cleaner for a couple of days then blew out all the passages with compressed air.
I'll let you know how it turned out.

Thanks SRST for the help.

 

[srsupertrap]

Well you probably will have to juggle the various screw adjustments since the carbs are not synched. See if it starts with the choke and idles . . probably won't right away. You might want open up the slides a bit with the idle adjustment knob located between #2 & #3 to compensate.

You are on the right track and although you want to button it up today it's probably better to sort out everything first. Other things that may cause a sooty plugs are a oil soaked air filter, a clogged baffle, lousey spark to name a few.

Report back and let us know how its running . . .

PS: Pilot Mixture air screw rule of thumb: If the air screw is located between the carburetor slide and the engine, turning the screw out richens the mixture. If the screw is between the carburetor slide (VM) and the air cleaner turning it in richens it. Joe Minton

 

[Rick65Cat]

Well you probably will have to juggle the various screw adjustments since the carbs are not synched. See if it starts with the choke and idles . . probably won't right away. You might want open up the slides a bit with the idle adjustment knob located between #2 & #3 to compensate.

You are on the right track and although you want to button it up today it's probably better to sort out everything first. Other things that may cause a sooty plugs are a oil soaked air filter, a clogged baffle, lousey spark to name a few.

Report back and let us know how its running . . .

Air filter looks new. Its not even dirty let alone oil soaked.

A clogged baffle isn't going to be hard to check. I might try that this afternoon.

Lousy spark?..well, aside from pulling a plug and laying it against the head with the lead on it and cranking the motor...I'm DEFINATELY no whiz on electrical. Maybe the coils are weak?

 

[srsupertrap]

Air filter looks new. Its not even dirty let alone oil soaked.

A clogged baffle isn't going to be hard to check. I might try that this afternoon.

Lousy spark?..well, aside from pulling a plug and laying it against the head with the lead on it and cranking the motor...I'm DEFINATELY no whiz on electrical. Maybe the coils are weak?

The air filter is fine, you got the baffle covered and pulling a plug as you stated is the correct method to check for spark. The suzuki coils are normally okay but the spark plug caps can be suspect and are replaceable. Z-1 Enterprises has them but don't jump to any conclusions . . .

Check out the PS rule of thumb in #10 but it sounds like you got this down

 

[Rick65Cat]

For some stupid reason, the baffle won't come out. There only seems to be the one small bolt holding the end cone in. Pull the bolt, grab the end pipe with pliers and it won't even budge.
Its too friggen cold out to be laying on the driveway dicking with it.

 

[srsupertrap]

If the muffler has ever hit the pavement that will make it out of round making removal of the baffle very difficult. Might try attaching a slide hammer to the baffle to remove it?

 

[Rick65Cat]

Pipe is virgin...no impacts at all.
And I haven't got a slide hammer.

 

[srsupertrap]

Well it would have to be awfully clogged to be causing a problem. Have you tried starting it up yet?

 

[Rick65Cat]

Well, They are all back together... New O-ring kit, 4 new Rubber boot O-rings, Stainless intake rubber boot capscrews all from Mr RobertBarr, 4 rebuild kits, new bowl capscrews. Bench sync'd.
Just waiting for 4 new intake rubber boots from PartShark.
Also waiting for warm weather as it snowed here last night

 

[Spyderman]

looking good rick
hoping that you can get them on and tested soon don't feel bad it snowed here today too but on the plus side it's gonna be between 10 and 16 for the rest of the week here
talk to you soon

 

[Rick65Cat]

on the plus side it's gonna be between 10 and 16 for the rest of the week here
talk to you soon

Gee,...Thanks

I worked mon, tues, wed,... have to work today, tomorrow, sat, sun, mon, tues, wed, thurs.
Hope its still warm next friday.

 

[Rick65Cat]

Sheesh, finally my boots arrived.
Not slaming vendors here but getting charged 29.50 US for a box that has a US postage stamp on it saying $11.50 and its not even express post.
Then get an additional rectological going over by the Cdn. customs charging me a further $11.47 for tax HERE! Free trade my a**.

Ok, rant over...

I go into the basement where my carbs sit on a bench waiting...just for fun I grab the linkage cam and go to open the carbs to watch the slides go wayyy up. "Holy Crap!" Its like its in glue. When I let them close they don't snap shut..again, like its in glue.
They've been sitting so long the residue of the cleaning fluid I soaked them in is tacking up.
Soooo..Off come the upper caps, and after goofing around removing many bolts, remove all the slides and wash them all in varsol 1 at a time.
And when I had them apart, I decided to raise the stock needles 1 notch from stock #3 position while the carbs were out of the bike.
My reasoning is this, I am running a 4 into 1 and do plan on getting a K&N stock replacement filter very soon. And even if the bike is going to be rich right now, its not going to murder the performance. Just a little poorer gas mileage and darker plugs. If I have to, I'll pull them out and put the needles back to stock position.