Jumped the clutch safety switch, then had issues

[noogi1207]

Hi All,
I have an 81 GS450T that I have been riding and working on for the past year.

I recently removed the clutch safety switch from my bike as I was having trouble starting each time, so I thought it might be a contact issue. It started right up the first time, but died on me a little bit down the road while riding. Since this incident, my start button does not work. It could be that my start relay is bad, so I have been bypassing it with a screw driver to turn the engine over, but the bike won't start any more. I have been looking at the wiring diagram non stop for a few days now, and I can't see why deleting the safety switch would have this effect on the bike. Any thoughts?

I will add, I removed my air box and put on pods this winter. However, it had been running ever since then until this moment. So maybe it's coincidence and this is actually an air/fuel issue that came about coincidentally, but I wanted to hear other's thoughts, too.

Thank you

 

[Redman]

That clutch swtich is in the circuit in between the starter button and the starter solenoid, so that clutch swtich only effects that.... will have no effect on the engine running or not.. .

Sounds like two problems:
1. what ever is causing the starter button to not operate the starter.
Yes, might be bad starter solenoid, or some other problem in the starter button-solenoid circuit. This sounds like an electrical problem that needs to be troubleshoot with a voltmeter or maybe a test proble light. Is difficult to track down an electrical problem with your eyeballs.
Could be that the starter solenoid is not grounded.... again, hard to troubleshoot an electrical problem with your eyeballs.

2. Whatever/why "will not start". I assume you mean it doeas turnover (when jump the solenoid).
Could be the barttery voltage is low, so not turning overfast enough and/or voltage is too low to operate the ingintion.
Again: need a voltmeter to check this out.
Or could be any number of a wide range of possibilitys from ignition to fuel.
But lets check battery voltage first.

.

 

[noogi1207]

Hi Redman,
thanks for responding.

Per your points-

1. I took the starter/switch on the right-side handlebar apart and everything seems to be in order but I haven't tested the connection points. I'm honestly not sure what I would be looking for. I guess I would expect battery voltage coming to the start button, and then I should see battery voltage when the start button is pressed. I can check that, probably early next week. (Work is gonna be busy this week...) The reason why I think it may be the solenoid is because I no longer hear the audible clicking sound, but this would be true if no voltage was getting to it as well. I will test voltage around the solenoid when testing the starter button/switch mechanism.

2. My battery voltage was getting low so I have been charging it. The lowest it got standing was about 12.25-12.3V. I've been cranking the engine a lot so I've been disconnecting the battery and charging it til it's at least over 12.6. As for the battery under load, I don't know what it drops to by just turning it to the on position when the headlights turn on, but at it's lowest it did drop around 9.5V when cranking the one time I was watching it. I will monitor this more closely while doing other testing and report back.

As of this afternoon, though, when I tried it all out again and after charging overnight, my batteries voltage was at 13.4V.

Thank you

 

[Guest]

You can check your start button with a continuity test and also test the starter solenoid that way. Just because you hear a clicking sound, doesn't mean that it is passing the current through to the other post, then to the starter. There is a plate inside the solenoid that makes contact with the bottom of the two posts(secondary side, battery and starter wire) when it is energized at the primary side(small wire(Y/G) and ground). A small carbon deposit is left on the plate and the bottom of the posts every time it is energized. This builds up over time and eventually gets to where the current cannot flow through the plate to the other post, You will still hear the clicking sound, because the plate is still doing it's job as far a moving into position when energized, but the carbon build up is blocking the flow of current from the battery to the starter. As a quick fix sometime the solenoid can be smacked with an object like a big screwdriver handle or small hammer and jar some of the carbon loose, but it is only a temp fix and is not a substitute for replacement. Also it is wise to get a quality solenoid as some of the cheap Chinese ones fail right out of the box.

 

[Brendan W]

How old is that battery?
Anything less than 10 Volts cranking would be a red flag for me anyway.
12.6 is the fully charged standing cold number.
To get a battery to charge the voltage from the regulator must be higher, up to 14.4 when up to speed.
Typically after charging or a ride out the battery will show 13.7 ish and this will slowly fall over the next hours to 12.6 Volt.

 

[Redman]

.........

1. .................... The reason why I think it may be the solenoid is because I no longer hear the audible clicking sound, but this would be true if no voltage was getting to it as well. I will test voltage around the solenoid when testing the starter button/switch mechanism.

.

Yes and Yes. And can do that without taking apart the right bar controls. Good that you have a meter, and know how to use it.
Yes, check to see if getting voltage at the yel/grn wire at the solenoid when push the starter button. Then will know if to concentrate your efforts up toward the starter button or down at the soloenoid.

Before doing this, have your meter negitive on a good ground somewhere, and also test the meter and that ground by touching the meter positive to a known good positive like the battery + or the main fuse or something. THis is so you know you have meter on a good ground and meter set on proper scale and can see what full battery voltage looks like on the meter.

Leave meter negitive on that ground, then check for voltage at the solenoid yel/grn wire when push starter buton. If do have voltage there but solenoid doesnt click; before you condem the solenoid as bad, try this: Now move you meter negitive probe to the solenoid mounting bolt, and try testing voltage at the yel/grn wire again when push button. If dont measure votage this time, you can suspect that the solenoid itself may be okay but has lost its ground. Can check that by having meter negitive on the solnoid mounting bolt, and meter positive lead on know good positive like battery +, if dont read voltage, then know the solenoid isnt grounded, and we can then look into that problem.

 

[posplayr]

Yes and Yes. And can do that without taking apart the right bar controls. Good that you have a meter, and know how to use it.
Yes, check to see if getting voltage at the yel/grn wire at the solenoid when push the starter button. Then will know if to concentrate your efforts up toward the starter button or down at the soloenoid.

Before doing this, have your meter negitive on a good ground somewhere, and also test the meter and that ground by touching the meter positive to a known good positive like the battery + or the main fuse or something. THis is so you know you have meter on a good ground and meter set on proper scale and can see what full battery voltage looks like on the meter.

Leave meter negitive on that ground, then check for voltage at the solenoid yel/grn wire when push starter buton. If do have voltage there but solenoid doesnt click; before you condem the solenoid as bad, try this: Now move you meter negitive probe to the solenoid mounting bolt, and try testing voltage at the yel/grn wire again when push button. If dont measure votage this time, you can suspect that the solenoid itself may be okay but has lost its ground. Can check that by having meter negitive on the solnoid mounting bolt, and meter positive lead on know good positive like battery +, if dont read voltage, then know the solenoid isnt grounded, and we can then look into that problem.

+1 ; nice simple test for solenoid ground with out using the ohm meter.

 

[LAB3]

When I put my 450t back together this winter I didn't pay attention to where I put the battery ground wire on the plate the regulator and starter solenoid are mounted. Had all my electrics working but no stater at all. After moving the ground to the bolt at the top of the regulator everything worked as it should.