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Leaking 850

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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Anonymous

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My GS850 is leaking oil from what appears to be a small hole in the case just below the altornator cover (left side). It did this last summer and I thought it was the "pan" gasket so I replaced it during the fall and put new oil in it. Now it's leaking oil again (since about January). It started slow, but seems to have increased recently. This time I tracked it to this little hole. The hole is on a horizontal plane in the top of a small box-like compartment located on the left side near the front of the engine. The hole is about the size of a #2 pencil eraser. Any help, thoughts, insights are welcome. Especially desirable are those comments that read, "Oh this will be easy to correct and will not require taking the engine apart."

Thanks.
 
I can't tell from your discription Can you take a picture?
 
Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera. However, I did take a closer look last night and can offer some better descriptions (I hope).

The area in question is actually located just behind and slightly up from where the alternator cover is on the left side, and not in front of the alternator as I indicated earlier. I needed a flashlight to really get a good look. There is a small "cubicle-like" area right there behind the alternator, and then behind this little "box" area appears to be a sensor plug (oil pressure?)

In this little "box" between the alternator and this sensor plug is a small hole on the "ceiling" of the "box." This little hole is closest to the engine case and the front sides of the little "box, cubicle," and it is about the size of a wood pencil eraser.

From that hole, I seem to have oil seeping out, then down the side of the engine case, over the underside "pan" with its bolts, and then onto the exhaust, especially the crossover pipe.

I hope that will help sufficiently. If not and push comes to shove, I'll track a digital camera down and send a picture.

Much obliged.
 
Sounds like the oil level hole for the gear lube in the front gearbox for the shaft drive. Is it leaking thick, smelly gear oil?

If that's what it is, it's supposed to be plugged with a small 6mm bolt. (6mm threads, probably 12mm long) with a fiber washer. You should be able to find waht you need at a hardware store.

Probably no harm done, either. But you'll want to drain the gear lube (there's a larger plug near the bottom) and then refill it (through the plug on top of the engine just behind the starter cover) until the oil starts to run out the level hole.

I can take some pictures tonight if that will help you tell us what you're seeing.
 
If you (bwringer) could take and post some pictures, that would be great. Much appreciated too.

I looked again last night, and noted that the hole in question was in the same general area as the the gear box, etc. I didn't check the fluid's consistency or odor, though. I'll do that tonight.

FWIW, I also noted that the hole in question seems to be located below the starter, if that's of any help. And, after looking through my repair book, I learned that the sensor I described previously appears to be the neutral switch sensor.

Thanks for the feedback. I sure enjoy this site and forum.
 
THIS IS AN EASY PROBLEM TO SOLVE< AND WONT INVOLVE TAKING THE ENGINE APART!! :) :D

yup...that would be the oil level check for the front gearbox. right above , and slightly behind the shifter, right? if it hasnt been plugged up. you'll need to change the gear oil, (using 80-90 hypoid gear oil).

it probably only leaks when its running, as the level would have dropped enough to stop leaking when off.


got the same bike myself.
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure the area in question (on my bike) is located in front of the shifter. (I'm doing all my posting from work, so I have to do this from memory from my last look at the bike, which was just a couple hours ago actually.)

The hole in question is located inside a little nook that is located just in front of the neutral switch sensor that goes into the base of the engine case--in other words, it is to the left of the switch sensor when looking at the alternator on the left side of the bike. Therefore, I think it's in front of the shifter.

It is also not necessary to remove the alternator cover or the front gearbox cover to get to this nook and hole. They're just out there in the open, but you need a good light to see in there. When looking into this little nook, there is a small hole about the size of the end of a pinky on the top of this little nook. The hole is on the top horizontal surface of this little nook, or what you could call the ceiling of the nook. If I were to put a plug or bolt into this hole, it would insert in a vertical manner.

I checked the leaking fluid's consitency and odor this morning and compared it to some 10W30 I had in the garage. It certainly was more viscous and thick than the 10W30. It also had a more pronounced amber color to it, and the odor seemed more pronounced and more like the gear oil I just put in the differential of my truck last week.

Still, I'm not sure that my hole in question (please no wise cracks--pun slightly intended :lol: ) is the oil level for the front gearbox. Isn't the oil level hole located underneath the gearbox cover? If so, it would be located above and behind the neutral switch sensor instead of in front and even with the switch.

I'll try to get a friend to take some pictures this weekend and then send them around. In the meantime, I certainly appreciate all the comments and goose chasing.

Until the case is solv?d . . .
 
Here is a link to a website with a left-side picture of an 850G. They are not close-ups, but may help orient some of my descriptions.

http://www.mourneman.co.uk/motorbikes/bikes/suzuki_gs850g/gall09.shtml

Or you could go to the main gallery link and choose image #9:

http://www.mourneman.co.uk/motorbikes/bikes/suzuki_gs850g/gallery.shtml

Just above and to the right (rear) of the alternator, and just above and to the left (forward) of the gearbox cover is the starter. Draw a straight line down from the center of the starter "circle." This line will be left (in front) of the shifter. Follow that imaginary line to the space below the gear box cover and above the pipes. This is the area in question with the little nook and the hole in it's top.

Hope this is helpful for the time being until I can get some digital close-ups. Thanks.
 
The links you provided didn't work for me.

Here's a few photos I just took and annotated that should help. They are two different GS850 engines, but the parts are exactly the same except the one on the bench is painted black. I've also replaced several bolts with allen head stainless. Excuse the mess on my workbench and the general filth:

step1.jpg


step2.jpg


If we're talking about the front shaft drive gearbox, this should help us zero in on the problem. I suspect that the gear oil level bolt (the small one in the middle highlighted in pink) has worked loose and fallen out. Drain, refill with 80/90w gear oil until it just starts to escape this hole, and replace the bolt and you'll be fine.

If it's something else, well, I guess you'll let us know.
 
I should note that you do not need to remove the stator cover. It just happened to be removed from the second engine.

The cover over the gearbox does not seal oil or anything, so there is no gasket. It just covers an ugly area and has a bushing that supports the shifter shaft.
 
Excellent photos.

I took some pictures over the weekend and they are now on my hard drive here at work, but I can't seem to figure out how to get them onto the forum here. I'll keep trying to figure out how to post them here.

In the meantime, if you or anyone wants to contact me directly at andersat@uwec.edu, I can email them to you as jpeg attachments.

Concerning the two photos above, the second is most helpful in describing where my leak is. The gearbox cover is held on with four screws. To the left of the where the lower left screw mounts is a bolt. It enters the engine case vertically and is to the right of the alternator cover kind of between where two alternator cover screws mount.

This is the area of interest on my bike, and not the oil level plug highlighted in pink, which is on the opposite side of the general gearbox area. This may be where my problem is. This bolt may be missing on my bike.

If you have any feedback at this point, it's always welcome. In the meantime, I'll try to get my pictures on, and/or I can email them.

As always, much thanks
 
From your description it could be one of the two case bolts circled in yellow in this modified photo. Is one of these missing or loose?

step2mod.jpg


If that is the source of the oil leak, then replacing/tightening the bolt could cure the leak.

You can get the bolt size (or just order a new one) from the fiche on http://crotchrocket.com
 
A picture is definitely worth at least 1,000 words. I'm posting these for A T:

His description:

The first one (#5) is more of a general picture to orient the viewer as
to the location, but if you look close, you can probably see the hole in
question. The other three are all close-ups that do justice to the hole
itself.

850engine5.jpg

850engine2.jpg

850engine3.jpg

850engine4.jpg


I'll have to look at my 850 engines when I get home. Anyone else got a guess?
 
Thanks Bwinger.

In the first photo, you can see the sensor, as well as the small compartment to the left of it. In the next photos, you can see close-ups of that small compartment, as well as the infamous hole that has so occupied our attention. :) This is the hole that has been leaking what appears to be gear oil.

Should an engine case bolt go in there? Or something else? I got the bike as is, so comments from anyone with a complete bike who can tell what is supposed to go there would be a big help.

Thanks to all--AT/Tracer
 
GOT IT!

The mystery hole is a drain hole. I've never really noticed this little hole and the mystery chamber in the cases before.

Anyway, there appears to be a small mystery chamber under the starter that this hole drains. You can see the piece of blue tubing I stuck up through the mystery hole on my "bench" GS850 engine...
mystery1.jpg


...and up through the drain hole under the starter.
mystery2.jpg



If you have oil coming from the mystery hole, there are three likely sources for it to leak on top of the engine, run into the starter well, then into the mystery chamber and out the mystery hole.

1) One is the o-ring around the nose of the starter.

2) The most likely is a leaking cam chain tensioner (very common).

3) You could also have a leak from the oil pressure switch.

All are easy, inexpensive, and will not require dismantling the engine! I would just replace all these seals and o-rings at the same time. They're all pretty cheap.

Here's my series on putting new seals in a cam chain tensioner:
http://bwringer.com/gs/camchaintens.html

Put on new intake boot o-rings while you're in there:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Let me know if you need part numbers, but the least expensive place to order everything you need will be the online fiche at:
http://crotchrocket.com
 
i can see why the "mystery hole" is there. When cleaning out that area on my '80 850, there is a little spot under the cam-chain tensioner, where the metal dips right where the lines run into the starter compartment.

its very easy for water to get in there, so thats probably why the hole is there.

now, as to why OIL is coming out, I would definitely check the tensioner, and follow up on ringers suggestions concerning the oil sensor.


I cant think of any way that the gear oil could be coming into the starter compartment....unless you have a real big crack in the lower end :?
 
As Bob & Doug might say, "Beauty, eh." This all helps tons. I'm glad to hear that (hopefully) it's not something that will be extremely invasive. I've only had the bike running a few times last summer while trying to get carb gremlins ironed out. If there was a serious crack in the lower end, would it have been manifest when running the bike then?

While thinking about it, I guess I could toss is some additional details, FWIW.

When originally fiddling with the bike last spring, gas got into the case from a bad petcock (since replaced). I can't really say with certainty when the oil started leaking, but I'm pretty sure it was after the gas got in. I know that after that (and after I drained the contaminated oil and replaced the filter), the few times I started the bike after that, it had oil on the pipes that stunk up the garage while burning off. It also leaked pretty good in the back of my truck while moving here from central IL. So I replaced the base/pan gasket thinking that was the culprit back in September.

I thought the problem was solved after that since no leaks showed up after that. But then in January, it started again, and this time I traced it to that hole as it seemed to get a little worse into February and March. I wiped it clean a couple weeks ago, and haven't seen anything since then, but I still keep an eye on it.

At this point, I (we all) know what the hole is, and now I have some options to explore to see if I can get it to stop. I sure appreciate all the responses and the assistance. I look forward to sending a follow-up post when it's all taken care of.

Much thanks
 
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