Less Toxic and Offensive Test Fluid?

[bwringer]

I'm starting to really detest carb work because despite multiple mitigation measures, it's almost inevitable that I'll end up soaking my hands, my bench, and my clothes with gasoline and/or carb cleaner. Gasoline is toxic and carcinogenic, not to mention, you know, FLAMMABLE. And it's just plain stanky; my hands smell like gas for days and it's nasty.

Yes, I'm using a metal pan, absorbent pads, and other ways to drain safely, contain spills, etc. Even without spilling a drop, the parts are covered in gas and I still always end up with gas soaking into my fingers.

Yes, I'm using high-quality gloves. Which inevitably tear, unless I use really thick gloves. And gloves of any thickness make it impossible to handle weensy carb parts.


So: is there some sort of non-offensive and nontoxic fluid available to mere mortals that one can use for bench testing such as setting float heights and testing for float needle leakage?


I did find something called Carbsyn that seems to be exactly what I'm looking for, but I can't find it for sale anywhere:
https://www.haltermann-carless.com/what-we-do/performance-fuels/calibration-fluids#carbsyn

I've emailed the North America rep to see if Carbsyn is available in small quart or gallon quantities anywhere. In addition to motorcyclists, all kinds of vintage vehicle enthusiasts would likely be very interested, so I'd think that someone somewhere would be interested in this market.

 

[Gorminrider]

Interesting...for float adjustment you just want something with the same specific gravity...? "Less toxic"-It's off the wall but water+ alcohol in proportion...?
Or I'd look up "varsol" ,paint thinners, kerosenes...

As a further aside, when it comes to toxic carb-cleaners where a person can't find Berryman's, it's occurred to me that "injector cleaner" might serve better than those awful spraycans. That said, I avoid all this stuff and not having "blockages" that some experience, hot water, detergents, barbecue cleaners etc etc with some airpressure scratch my itch to clean carbs.

 

[bwringer]

From this chart:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/specific-gravity-liquids-d_336.html

It looks like gasoline (vehicle) is at .739.

With water at 1.0 by definition and ethanol and menthanol at .787, you couldn't mix them to get to the SG of gasoline. Plus, the alcohol would evaporate pretty quickly, can deteriorate components, and isn't a lot more pleasant to deal with.

And all the lower SG stuff seems pretty darn "offensive" and toxic as well... methane, hexane, silane, decane, heptane, etc.

Kerosene is at .82 (but it's still pretty stinky), so perhaps there's some math one could do to calculate an offset; for a level of "X" in gasoline, set the level to "X-Y" in kerosene.

WD-40 is pretty safe and fairly pleasant stuff, and easily available in gallon cans. Its SG looks like .81.

 

[Gorminrider]

Sorry, I was too lazy to check per SG... the "Plimsoll line" idea ? aka ship bouyancy in various specific gravities...haven't looked it up either but given the un-simple shape of floats, it will be difficult to draw a plimsoll line across a shape that is complicated though not THAT difficult if there's a rainy day.. BUT....wait a minute!


Put your "correct" floats in gas as per usual, then in scented kerosene, paint- thinner/varsol* and compare... Thereafter, you would know the float level as correct for gas but using less explosive/toxic fluid on the bench.

OR again, maybe just water,(with dish-detergent to break the surface tension)

It will be a little trickier to "measure" float height but possibly, just make permanent measure device to save fiddling with calipers... a bit of wood or plastic for the 3 or 4 variations of carb float?
But, darn, the difficulty may arise if the fluid raises the floats beyond the allowable swing. I've probably got an obvious flaw here, but it saves someone else going down the road.

I'm not to sure about wd40 as particularly benign. Seems like there's more in there than sheep oil...But I've been wrong before.

*less stinky

 

[Nessism]

Just finished adjusting fuel level on some VM26's. The worst stink'n part of rebuilding a set of carbs. I put on my old dirty cloths because it seems that more times than not I wind up splashing gasoline on myself when doing this. Sucks is an understatement. Got lucky this time and while fuel did spill it didn't land directly on me this time! Victory!

If you want to dive down the rabbit hole regarding measuring fuel level you may want to check out this thread from KZ Rider. https://www.kzrider.com/forum/3-car...-a-clear-tube-when-setting-fuel-level?start=0
I personally haven't tried this technique but it's out there...

 

[Gorminrider]

..."gauge"-that's the word I was trying to summon... hang the gauge* on the level bowl, fill bowl with water?** to the gauge level, then test and adjust float level.

* gauge made to suit substitute liquid level versus correct gasoline+float level...
** substitute liquid: water (+uniform measure of detergent per surface tension), or simpler, kero,paint thinner...diesel?meh stinks bad.

 

[bwringer]

Yeah, I think one could do some careful measuring and come up with a correction factor for a float height with H2O or WD-40... that KZrider thread was extremely interesting, and proved there is a significant difference in test fluids, so it's best to use good ol' gas. I do love the idea of a test fixture like that temporary bowl arrangement.

A clear carb bowl, or one with a clear stripe, could be handy.

Or, scare up a spare carb bowl (or set of carb bowls) and plumb in a clear tube to act as a level gauge.

Another important part of the equation is holding the carbs level; a simple fixture of some sort could be helpful.

I'm wondering if Coleman fuel would offer any worthwhile improvement in offensiveness vs. floaty-ness?

 

[bwringer]

Well, here's today's comedy gold... I heard back from the Haltermann rep about Carbsyn fluid:

I have attached the material that would most represent the gasoline test fuel you are looking for. This is non-hazardous and not flammable. As for the lead time you would be looking at 6 weeks for delivery and the price per gallon is about $1000.00 depending on how much you were looking for.

Here's the data sheet, in case anyone else wants a peek. Not very enlightening.
https://www.bwringer.com/gs/TDS-Carbsyn-C-60-En.pdf

Um. Well. I guess that's that.

I honestly probably would have ponied up something like $20-$30 a quart for this stuff, but $1,000 for a gallon is right out. Sounds like they'd have to gin up a whole factory to mix up a batch for a bunch of old bike weirdos. I guess maybe there's not much call for OEM carburetor testing nowadays.

So, back to our regularly scheduled discussion...

 

[roeme]

Hm, they're a german company, and a friend of mine has access to some B2B channels for chemicals. Maybe we'll be able to get more reasonable prices - but I imagine sending it over the big pond will cost a lot.
In any case, I'll try to think of this when I'm calibrating the next bank, and will update this thread accordingly.

 

[Gorminrider]

"coleman fuel" = "white gas" = "naptha"=(nearly) Zippo lighter fluid= Very Explosive .The bouquet is a matter of "preference" like white vs red wine

 

[Gorminrider]

$1000! But I don't doubt there's rocket science to get a low density liquid that isn't "vapourous" and "volatile"...You could go twards pressure and temperature (liquid oxygen? hahah) but without refernce to the link I confess I haven't read, you could also go a different way...IE: my brain spasm today is: instead of a gauge, weighting the floats to suit water/kero/....

 

[Guest]

synthetic 4 stroke fuel

 

[bwringer]

synthetic 4 stroke fuel
View attachment 62840

Yeah, but that's just as dangerously flammable, every bit as toxic, and only slightly less offensive than pump gas.

Supposedly that $1K/gallon Carbsyn stuff is perfectly safe on skin, nonflammable, and didn't require respirators, from which we can infer it's not overly stinky.

No idea what's in it, other than this mangled Franklish line from the TDS:
CARBSYN are blends of perfluored components

If you Google "perfluored" you get an extremely nasty stuff sometimes called perfluoroethylene:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrafluoroethylene

So they must have some assortment of vaguely related fluorocarbon sauces that are liquid, stable and oh yeah, don't kill people.

 

[Spyder]

At a $1000 a gallon, it better be flammable, and make my bike run a 6 second 1/4 mile ! ! ! Have to wonder what it's intended use is.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

If you Google "perfluored" you get an extremely nasty stuff sometimes called perfluoroethylene:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrafluoroethylene

"and prone to form explosive peroxides in contact with air"

"The International Agency for Research on Cancer classifies TFE as probably carcinogenic to humans based on animal studies"

EGAD!

 

[bwringer]

At a $1000 a gallon, it better be flammable, and make my bike run a 6 second 1/4 mile ! ! ! Have to wonder what it's intended use is.

Um... it's in the title of the thread...?

I'd love to find something I can use to set float levels without poisoning myself or making my hands stink like gasoline for three days. Carbsyn appears to be just the ticket, but it turns out the ticket is waaaaaaaaaay too expensive.

"and prone to form explosive peroxides in contact with air"

"The International Agency for Research on Cancer classifies TFE as probably carcinogenic to humans based on animal studies"

EGAD!

Yeah, I have no idea what Carbsyn is made of or what magic they perform to produce something that won't explode or kill humans, but has a similar specific gravity so that floats float properly (assuming it doesn't melt plastic floats or something).

The explody-killy part is exactly WHY I don't want to use plain old unleaded; that stuff is Bad News for you mind and body, worse than most people realize, especially if you marinate in it for hours as you would while setting carb float levels and getting a set of carbs dialed in.

 

[roeme]

(...)
I'd love to find something I can use to set float levels without poisoning myself or making my hands stink like gasoline for three days. Carbsyn appears to be just the ticket, but it turns out the ticket is waaaaaaaaaay too expensive.
(....)

Methinks until you get that magic fluid, using double-layered nitrile gloves (like the ones Edd China uses) should do the trick. As for respiration, modern masks as used by painters maybe...?