Lighting woes

[Overdrive]

Ok, I've done a lot of searching (not of the soul- type, mind you, but of the site type), and cannot find what I'm looking for. Apologies if this is a big repost of a newbie question, but I need to know so that I can be comfortable operating this vehicle on the road with the crazy New England maniacs that live around me.

I have an '82 GS650E with a few lighting issues.

I didn't notice this at first, but my brake light does not work. As a running light, it operates fine, but when pressing either brake pedal the light does not get brighter. I've seen a rear light assembly in a picture and noticed that there are two bulbs (true?) which would lead me to believe that there is one bulb for a running light, and one for a "braking" light. My problem is, for the life of me, I cannot find out the specifications of what type of light bulb I should look for, and then from there where to purchase one. Frustration abounds. All I have found is an explanation like "12v 21/5w bulb". I tried my luck with some of the local auto parts stores (don't laugh) who pretty much told me I'd have to try to match the bulb to what they have there, with no guarantee that it would work, recommending I go to a Suzuki dealer to find the right thing (obviously). I'm figuring this is a bulb that should be fairly common and easy to find. Any information and suggestions for how to check the system should a replacement bulb not solve the problem would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also missing the two front signals (thank goodness the wiring is still there), and the signals that are on the rear are aftermarkets. When using the signal switch, all that happens is the rear signals go full on, no flashing at all. My assumption (based on a developing electrical background and some common sense thinking) is that the lack of resistance due to the absence of two more bulbs must be why the system does not operate like it should. If not that, then my signal relay(s) may be fried, though I would think that would prevent the signals from working at all if that were the case. If anyone happens to know or has any advice on what to look into, that'd be great.

And one final little question: Since I don't know how the system operates when everything's normal, does the turn signal indicator on the instrument cluster flash with your signals, or does it stay steady on? As it works now, it stays steady on, but I'm not sure if that is normal or not.

Sorry for the novel of a thread. Thanks for your time.

 

[lucabond]

You do need both front and rear lights to make your turn signal work. So with just 1 light the cluster light will just come on and not blink.
As for your brake light it could be the switches that make them come on not working. The front switch in under the brake lever and get dirty and wear over time. It also needs to be adjusted to work. Try loosening the 2 screws under the lever and slide the plastic cover to see if the brake light comes on. if not take it apart and clean the contacts with some steel wool. There is a copper u shaped contact that should be cleaned and the 2 traces on the board. To check the wiring first just short the 2 contacts on the board and your brake light should come on. If it does just clean things up and put it back together then adjust it by sliding it . The rear brake light is activated by the spring going to the switch pull up where the bottom of the springs goes if you light comes on it just needs to be adjusted by turning switch till the light comes on then back it off a little.
Let us know how you make out if these dont cure things then it a wiring problem on bad bulb or socket. Good luck

 

[Overdrive]

Thank you, lucabond. I'll be checking this out probably come this weekend with a little time on my hands and getting my hands on a bulb. I want to see if it's just a burnt out bulb (unless that's not how the system operates), and then dive into the wiring and component hunting. thank you again for the explanations. Do both lights function as running and brake lights, or is each light set up to perform one purpose?

As for the signals, just waiting for an aftermarket set to come off of ebay and hope those solve the problem. If not, at least I'll have all four signals on there.

 

[duaneage]

Instead of thinking the brake lights are not on, maybe they are on all the time. Disconnect the orange from the rear switch first, then the front switch in the headlight bucket.

I fixed a KZ440 last month with no brake lights by adjusting the rear switch. They were on all the time and quite bright.

Turn the key to Park and the rear tailight will come on (but not the brake) and if it is dimmer than normal, your problem is a stuck switch. Usually the switch on the front gets stuck and stays on. look there first. Also the small wire for the rear gets tangled and holds the rear light on.

 

[lucabond]

the rear is 1 bulb for both brake and running on my bike so I would think its the same for yours. On my bike I have a fairing so the front lights are running and turn and the rear just turn. I think on bikes without fairings they are just turning front and rear but I'm not positive. As the other post said it could be just stuck on so in that case if you take off the plastic lens covering the rear brake light both filements would be lit.

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

automotive bulb #1157 should work !!!

 

[duaneage]

There are LED kits available that last 75 years, should outlast all of us,

A trip to a salvage yard can yield a handful of spare bulbs, enough to keep you going. I have several I acquired this way.

 

[Overdrive]

Thanks guys, I'll be on this come this weekend, homework willing, but I'm really gonna try to make the time. Will update when I've got something.

 

[Overdrive]

Just a lil update.

Went to run the bike about an hour ago (sure took some turning over to get started this time, but it's been almost a week, and most of it colder days.) I checked out the rear light before and after running it by switching between "on" and "park" (which I assume is the position all the way to the right), as duaneage suggested.

The only way I could check it is by putting a hand in front of the light to see if it got brighter shining on my hand while I turned the key between the two positions. I did not notice a difference in the brightness, and I figure it would be a significant difference in brightness if it was a stuck switch. Let me know if I'm missing something or didn't perform this properly. Thanks!

 

[duaneage]

Well we know it is not a switch stuck on, probably a bad bulb, or poor connection. Get a bulb and try it

 

[Overdrive]

Roger.ray:

Picked up a pair of 1157 bulbs tonight. Gonna swing by home in between classes and make the swap. I'll update then.
Hopefully this solves this problem and then I can get crackin' on some signals.

 

[Overdrive]

UPDATE: (drum roll...off-key fanfare...)
Ok, so between classes I had me quite a time trying to get this bulb swapped. Thankfully I didn't damage anything other than the old bulb.

So with the cover off I noticed there are two bulbs in the taillight assembly. One large bulb (the 1157) and one small bulb toward the bottom (I would assume the parking light? Can someone please confirm?). So I turn the bike on just to see what I've got without the red casing off, and both lights are on. On the larger bulb, only one filament is burning, the other is totally off...for that matter, the second filament is still intact and doesn't look worn. Hitting both brake levers I saw that the light got no brighter, confirming what I saw last week.

View of the two bulbs with cover off.

Turned the exposure down on my camera (hopefully not too much) for this one. The unlit filament is pretty visible. This is how the lights look when they are on, with no change while stepping on the brake pedal or squeezing the brake lever.

So then came the (insert expletive here) of a time that I had getting the bulb out of the housing. The metal housing kept rotating inside the rubber boot, so I actually had to loosen the screws on the reflective metal insert so that I could pull the rubber boot out of its spot, grab the boot with one hand, and with the other turn the bulb out (and subsequently, twist the new bulb back in).

Ok, so new bulb is in, key on, red casing off. Same thing, both bulbs on, larger only has one filament lit. Ok, so I try the levers again and...

No dice...

I even stood so that I could hit the rear brake lever while looking at the bulb. Second filament never lit.



So at this point we've ruled out the second filament being constantly lit, and we've ruled out a bad bulb. What's left for possibilities for why my braking lighting isn't functioning?

 

[lucabond]

Look on the frame above and a litle left of the rear brake pedal you should see a black round plastic threaded device with a wire coming out of the top and a spring on the bottom. Pull on the spring and see if the brake light comes on that is the switch. If it comes on the switch and wiring and blub are ok you just need to rotate it to adjust it to come on when you step on the pedal. If not then there is a problem in your wiring.
If all checks out go the the brake lever and find the switch under the handle with the wire coming out of it. Losen the 2 screws and slide the switch while holding the lever to se if the light comes on. If it does just adjust the switch by sliding it so the light comes on when you pull the lever and tighten the screws. If not loosen the clamp holding the master cylinder roll it over and take off the switch and short the 2 copper strips to see if the light comes on if it does clean up the slider and contacts with some stel wool apply some bulb grease and put back together. If not its the wiring.
Start there and if that doesnt get the brake going we can go from there.
Or you could take a ride to my place in Ma and I could give you a hand.

 

[Overdrive]

I would defintiely take you up on that offer, lucabond, but since the GS isn't exactly road-worthy yet, and I certainly don't trust our fellow New Englanders to pay that much attention to me giving hand signals, I'll have to take my assistance remotely.

I'll check out the switches probably some time this weekend after I get out of drill. Hopefully I won't come across any surprises during...or at least no unwanted surprises.

I'm going to edit my post and throw in the pics I took during my little adventure.

Thank you for the advice.

 

[Overdrive]

Ok, well I've sorta left this awfully dead, but I'll try and update for now and get some pictures up later.

I wired up the turn signals that I bought to replace those that are missing. Rather annoyingly, the two wires on each of them were colored green and a pale, sort of baby blue color. The wires where my signals used to be are black and black with a white pin stripe. I went with convention and hooked the green up to the black on the bike, and the blue to the black with the white stripe on the bike. Turned the bike on, flicked the signal switch, and nothing changed. Both signals on the respective side would light, but I was still getting no flash. So could this mean the relay for the signals is no good?

As for the brakes, haven't been able to touch that yet, but I took a picture of what I think lucabond was referring to as the rear brake switch. I'll post that up later so that it can be confirmed or corrected.

So, unfortunately, haven't had time for much activity with this, and all this occured maybe a few weeks after the last post I made, but I guess I'm looking to see where I should go from here. Thanks to everyone for your continued help (and patience).

 

[TheBigRed]

You have some really good answers above, and it sounds like it has been determined it may be in the switch. But I just wanted to clarify a couple items.

The smaller bulb it the "license plate" bulb there to *duh* light up the license plate.

The other dual filament bulb is the tail/brake. As you have seen the one filament (dimmer one) is the tail light, and the other, once you get it to light, will be much brighter and is the brake light.

I actually rode home one night in the dark on my 650 with the tail light out and I think the license light was the only light at the back of the bike the whole ride home (my wife was following me, then passed in her car). Left me with very little light back there, I quickly rectified the situation and got new bulbs. And have made note on for future reference what bulb numbers are needed for the bike so I don't have to play the guessing game at the parts store anymore. I have that information at home, where I can't get to it at the moment.

Amos

 

[monte]

brake light

brake light

I posted the answer to this question before......get a hydraulic actuated switch and junk that oem one. The Baja conversion switch contains the banjo bolt to adapt. Locate under the headlight where the hose block is. Wiring is convenient to the harness at that point. This is a permanent fix for all the GS models. You are welcome. Monte

 

[LarryA_Texas]

Ok, well I've sorta left this awfully dead, but I'll try and update for now and get some pictures up later.

I wired up the turn signals that I bought to replace those that are missing. Rather annoyingly, the two wires on each of them were colored green and a pale, sort of baby blue color. The wires where my signals used to be are black and black with a white pin stripe. I went with convention and hooked the green up to the black on the bike, and the blue to the black with the white stripe on the bike. Turned the bike on, flicked the signal switch, and nothing changed. Both signals on the respective side would light, but I was still getting no flash. So could this mean the relay for the signals is no good?

As for the brakes, haven't been able to touch that yet, but I took a picture of what I think lucabond was referring to as the rear brake switch. I'll post that up later so that it can be confirmed or corrected.

So, unfortunately, haven't had time for much activity with this, and all this occured maybe a few weeks after the last post I made, but I guess I'm looking to see where I should go from here. Thanks to everyone for your continued help (and patience).

A quick recap. The little bulb is for the license plate. The two filament bulb is for brakes and tail light. One filament is for the tail light,the second is brighter for the brakes. Look at the socket, you'll see two points at the bottom for the bulb to make contact with. That is the positive for each filament. The outer ring of the bulb is the ground for both filaments. Black wire with white tracer is the ground for everything and will connect to the outer ring or bucket on every socket.

It's possible that when you turned the entire socket you probably pulled a wire loose under the socket so the brake wire isn't making a connection. It was probably rusted and weak anyway. Put a tester down the there and touch each of those contacts...If there's not voltage there the keep tracing all the way back to the switches to find where you lost voltage.

If you don't have a volt tester you can get a cheap one that is the size and shape of a small screwdriver with a wire coming out the handle. You clip that wire to a ground and wherever you touch the screwdriver to voltage the handle lights up. Simple. Get one for a 12 volt system and you'll have all you need to solve your problem.

As for the turn signals: did you buy the kind with a two pin socket? Those are for a combination running light/turn signal . If so, those wires are designed to be positive for a TWO filament bulb like the tail light (an 1157 by the way) The ground for both of those is a ring on the stem placed under mounting nut. That's where your black with white should attach. Then you could just connect one of the wires to your turn signal wire. Try them one at a time; one will light the bulb dimly and the other will be bright. Use the second.

If your new lights have only one pin at the bottom of the socket for a single filament bulb, then it really doesn't matter which wire you use for ground. Just hook one up to the black and one up to the black with white.

Either way, until you get both front and back lights working you can't tell if the flasher is OK. It depends on the current draw of two bulbs to function correctly.

 

[Overdrive]

Alrighty, well it's time for another progress report...well overdue, actually.

So we had a beautiful Saturday this past weekend, which motivated me to actually get up when the double digits first hit the clock and get to the DMV. So now the ol' horse is registered and tagged.

I was itching to take it for a ride after getting it running again on Friday, so I started plugging away at that rear brake switch. I got it adjusted and working so that even the slightest touch on the pedal will activate the light. So there's some success, and at least now I know it's not wiring. The front brake will be another endeavor for this week.

Thankfully, my neighborhood doesn't see a ton of traffic, so I was able to take it for a spin in the very low-traffic back parts of the area. Turn signals are apparently optional in CT, so not having them operating at the moment was not too too big a deal for the little ride I took. The only traffic I really encountered was some id10t on his sport bike (sunglasses, it would seem, make awesome helmets) who decided it would be a good idea to start smoking his tire as I was coming up behind him at the stop sign.

Man, it felt great to finally get that thing moving.

And LarryA_Texas, I have not checked under the bulbs yet, but I think your suspicion at these signals being grounded differently would be correct. I will check that out and give wiring them up another shot with the method you described. Thank you for the insight.

Hopefully I'll have more success for you guys in the coming weeks. Thanks to everyone who's been helping me out. I know this thread's pretty dated, but I'm always coming back to it for my troubleshooting.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. Overdrive,

Congratulations on your success with the rear brake light.

Mr. Gravity tester has a pretty good cleanup guide for the front brake switch on my website. You might find it helpful..

Front Brake Switch Repair
(by Mr. gravity tester)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff