Low voltage with headlight on, fine when off

[Guest]

Right, so in keeping my ability to turn the lights on/off and  permanently wiring the extra stator leg in, I now require my r/r to deal  with dissipating more power when the lights are off, possibly  shortening the life of the r/r.

That would be absolutely true of the factory separate rectifier and regulator system. With the newer and better R/R's I don't think that would be an issue, especially with the series R/R's.

 

[spacepirates]

Aight, I'm sold. Consensus seems to be it is the smart thing to do.

my money is on a switch being bad, but I'll cut out the loop and check the rest of that section of wiring, too.

Thanks for the advice, hopefully i'll be able to update this evening or tomorrow with good news.

EDIT: I wanted to include that while not a bright idea (see what I did there?), riding without a daytime running headlight is legal in PA (if you bike is manufactured before 1986). As is running without turn signals, which was a surprise to me. (source here: http://dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter43.pdf)

 

[posplayr]

Out of curiosity I sketched up what is probably the result of riding the bike with all three stators operating but the head lamp off. I over laid the plots I already measured for a FH012AA FET SHUNT R/R and the Compufire SERIES R/R. These are approximations based on the following assumptions.

1.) Headlamps use about 4-5 amps at about 12-14 volts depending upon RPM

2.) At idle the headlamps are about 1/2 power

3.) the power in the stator is limited by the ability of the rotor magnets to support a magnetic field

Given these constraints the only time that the headlamp loop is providing any real benefit is on a SHUNT R/R in the 2000-3000 RPM range. The power is still below rated, but there is less ability to cool as there is probably less air flowing past.

So running around with lights off in first gear at 200-3000 RPM would be the worst case for removing the headlamp loop.

If you don't normally do this then there is nothing to worry about.

 

[spacepirates]

Wired the stator directly to the r/r... no change.

I took the headlight off and tested all three leads at the connector to ground, all three had little to no resistance regardless of the headlight on/off and hi/lo switch positions, so I'm guessing my issue is there. If I am reading the wiring diagram right, there shouldn't be any connection from the yellow wire to anywhere when the hi/lo switch is on lo (and then no white connection when on hi), not to mention no connections when the on/off switch is off.

... right?

 

[posplayr]

Wired the stator directly to the r/r... no change.

I took the headlight off and tested all three leads at the connector to ground, all three had little to no resistance regardless of the headlight on/off and hi/lo switch positions, so I'm guessing my issue is there. If I am reading the wiring diagram right, there shouldn't be any connection from the yellow wire to anywhere when the hi/lo switch is on lo (and then no white connection when on hi), not to mention no connections when the on/off switch is off.

... right?

does little to no mean a short or an OPEN "OL"?

And did you do that with the key on or OFF?

 

[spacepirates]

Took the switch off/apart. White now has no connection to ground (measured at the battery's negative terminal), both yellow and black still do...

Disconnected the 11-pin connector under the coils, and yellow and black still connect to ground...

Reconnected the 11-pin connector and put the switch back together. in the hi position, yellow is no connection, in the low position it is connected to ground...

 

[spacepirates]

does little to no mean a short or an OPEN "OL"?

And did you do that with the key on or OFF?

little to no resistance meaning a short, both with key on and off.

 

[spacepirates]

Does anybody know what connections between wires should be made with what switch configuration?

I'm thinking that with the headlight bulb out, both yellow and white wires from the headlight connector should never connect with ground at the battery. With the bulb in, they should connect through the bulb to ground only when light switch is on and hi/lo is toggled to the appropriate bulb.

Thoughts?

 

[posplayr]

Does anybody know what connections between wires should be made with what switch configuration?

I'm thinking that with the headlight bulb out, both yellow and white wires from the headlight connector should never connect with ground at the battery. With the bulb in, they should connect through the bulb to ground only when light switch is on and hi/lo is toggled to the appropriate bulb.

Thoughts?

The factory schematic show the contact continuity based on switch position; go back and look at it.

 

[allojohn]

Any progress here?

 

[spacepirates]

Any progress here?

Sadly no. I'm getting a new battery just in case and once I have a few free hours I'll go back over the wiring, but the first two times I went through the headlight loop I couldn't find anything that seemed like an issue.


If you have any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them since I'm getting frustrated with my inability to figure this sucker out.

 

[allojohn]

If you have any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them since I'm getting frustrated with my inability to figure this sucker out.

Truth be told I've got the exact same issue. I've even installed a headlight relay to no avail. I figured it has to be the switch but I've had it in pieces and it all looks perfect .

 

[spacepirates]

Truth be told I've got the exact same issue. I've even installed a headlight relay to no avail. I figured it has to be the switch but I've had it in pieces and it all looks perfect .

I think the next chance I get (which might not be for a while) I'm going to directly wire in the headlight (bypass the switch as much as possible), and then re-test the stator. I might try and measure the current coming off the battery with headlight on/off as well.

I feel like I've run through all the possibilities and now I'm left with just going through them again. Maybe I've missed something.

This thread (http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=190641) has some good info in it, for the record.

 

[Guest]

Most of the connector sheaths are yellowed and dirty

Yellowed sheaths indicates excessive heat. To avoid excessive tail chasing, why don't you go through all connectors, grounds, plugs and switches, clean or replace as necessary, coat with dielectric grease. Check any multiple pin plugs for heat during operation. If they run warmer than the adjacent harness wires, you have a problem and should replace the plug if cleaning won't do it. You might just inadvertently fix the problem. If not, at least you can rest assured you don't have cumulative high contact resistances messing with your test results. $2.00 meter, you got to be kidding me.

 

[spacepirates]

Yellowed sheaths indicates excessive heat. To avoid excessive tail chasing, why don't you go through all connectors, grounds, plugs and switches, clean or replace as necessary, coat with dielectric grease. Check any multiple pin plugs for heat during operation. If they run warmer than the adjacent harness wires, you have a problem and should replace the plug if cleaning won't do it. You might just inadvertently fix the problem. If not, at least you can rest assured you don't have cumulative high contact resistances messing with your test results. $2.00 meter, you got to be kidding me.

Yeah, I mean I *should* do that, and I guess I will, since I've run out of other things I can do. I was avoiding it because I had a cheap-o $5 crimp tool, but I'll invest in a more solid ratcheting one.

And for what it is worth, that $2 meter is just to keep a wary eye on things direct across the battery while riding. Don't worry, I do all my testing with my $20 multimeter (that is 10 times better!)