manifold boots came off but found something, please help

[Anonymous]

mixtures setting

mixtures setting

they are set @ 3 turns

 

[earlfor]

Re: can't find why its leaking

Re: can't find why its leaking

When the petcock is closed, it will not matter if there is fuel in the line or not. Its the same as sucking on a straw drinking a coke. You can place your finger over the end of a strawfull of coke and it will not drain out.
If the petcock truly does shut off fuel flow and assuming the fuel line is not cracked enabling air to get in, there isnt any way fuel can flow.

Youre right, the #1 float bowl is lowest and most prone to leakage if the bowl is overfilled. BUT....the bowl cannot overfill if the petcock works correctly.

Earl

If its leaking out of the boot into the air cleaner, I suspect the petcock is leaking. There would be no leak into the air cleaner even if the float needle valve was leaking because there would be no flow in the first place.

Earl, it could be the petcock as you say and I test for a leaking petcock just like you said, but don't rule out the float assembly/float valve still leaking. I've seen many bikes with a good petcock leak at #1 carb. They can leak because after shut off, there's enough fuel in the fuel line and fuel passages to the float chambers to overflow the bowl. Carb #1 being the lowest, is the most common one to leak. They sometimes leak for no apparent reason.
Now if the leak just continues beyond the amount that can be in the fuel line/passages, then it's a leaking petcock.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Re: can't find why its leaking

Re: can't find why its leaking

When the petcock is closed, it will not matter if there is fuel in the line or not. Its the same as sucking on a straw drinking a coke. You can place your finger over the end of a strawfull of coke and it will not drain out.
If the petcock truly does shut off fuel flow and assuming the fuel line is not cracked enabling air to get in, there isnt any way fuel can flow.

Youre right, the #1 float bowl is lowest and most prone to leakage if the bowl is overfilled. BUT....the bowl cannot overfill if the petcock works correctly.

Earl

If its leaking out of the boot into the air cleaner, I suspect the petcock is leaking. There would be no leak into the air cleaner even if the float needle valve was leaking because there would be no flow in the first place.

Earl, it could be the petcock as you say and I test for a leaking petcock just like you said, but don't rule out the float assembly/float valve still leaking. I've seen many bikes with a good petcock leak at #1 carb. They can leak because after shut off, there's enough fuel in the fuel line and fuel passages to the float chambers to overflow the bowl. Carb #1 being the lowest, is the most common one to leak. They sometimes leak for no apparent reason.
Now if the leak just continues beyond the amount that can be in the fuel line/passages, then it's a leaking petcock.

Well then Earl, I guess everything I'm saying is just BS then, right?
Ever had something happen right before your eyes, say as many times as you have fingers and toes? In this case, I'm not basing anything on theories or whatever, I'm describing actual events.
Many times I've had a bike leaking fuel into the airbox or out the bowl overflow line. This same bike has a petcock that's been tested and it's good. The bike has a clear fuel line installed. The fuel is turned on and you can see the fuel line fill completely, not even a bubble. If the petcock is vacuum operated, it's returned to ON. If non-vacuum, it's turned to OFF. I'm watching what happens or monitoring the fuel level overnight. It drops until there's nothing in the line and if enough time is allowed, nothing in the passages I'm sure. Fuel starts collecting in drops at the boot or sometimes comes out the bowl overflow line.
If #1 float assembly is not completely sealing, the fuel in the line and passages will overflow out that carb.
I've also found in some cases, that a bike that's leaking while on the sidestand, will not leak, or leaks MUCH less, when it's on the centerstand. So obviously, just a small tilt can defeat the float valve from sealing.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Re: mixtures setting

Re: mixtures setting

they are set @ 3 turns

OK. I was wondering if they could have been closed and forgotten.
Is the idle still rising under the conditions I described before?

 

[earlfor]

Re: can't find why its leaking

Re: can't find why its leaking

Well then Earl, I guess everything I'm saying is just BS then, right?
Hardly Keith.

................................. Did you ever look right at something and note what was obviously wrong and then find out that the obvious thing you saw, was a case of mistaken observation. I have done that.




Many times I've had a bike leaking fuel into the airbox or out the bowl overflow line. This same bike has a petcock that's been tested and it's good. The bike has a clear fuel line installed. The fuel is turned on and you can see the fuel line fill completely, not even a bubble. If the petcock is vacuum operated, it's returned to ON. If non-vacuum, it's turned to OFF. I'm watching what happens or monitoring the fuel level overnight. It drops until there's nothing in the line and if enough time is allowed, nothing in the passages I'm sure. Fuel starts collecting in drops at the boot or sometimes comes out the bowl overflow line.
...................................... What I am trying to say Keith is that if you have a clear fuel line and you can see the fuel level drop with the petcock shut off, then the petcock is leaking. It is physically impossible for fuel to flow through a tube that only has one end open. If the petcock is off, one end is effectively closed. So, no, the petcock is not "good".

Earl

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Re: can't find why its leaking

Re: can't find why its leaking

Well then Earl, I guess everything I'm saying is just BS then, right?
Hardly Keith.

................................. Did you ever look right at something and note what was obviously wrong and then find out that the obvious thing you saw, was a case of mistaken observation. I have done that.




Many times I've had a bike leaking fuel into the airbox or out the bowl overflow line. This same bike has a petcock that's been tested and it's good. The bike has a clear fuel line installed. The fuel is turned on and you can see the fuel line fill completely, not even a bubble. If the petcock is vacuum operated, it's returned to ON. If non-vacuum, it's turned to OFF. I'm watching what happens or monitoring the fuel level overnight. It drops until there's nothing in the line and if enough time is allowed, nothing in the passages I'm sure. Fuel starts collecting in drops at the boot or sometimes comes out the bowl overflow line.
...................................... What I am trying to say Keith is that if you have a clear fuel line and you can see the fuel level drop with the petcock shut off, then the petcock is leaking. It is physically impossible for fuel to flow through a tube that only has one end open. If the petcock is off, one end is effectively closed. So, no, the petcock is not "good".

Earl

Earl, I've seen this happen on two bikes that had brand new Pingel valves and one of those bikes was mine. The Pingels were in perfect shape. Both bikes leaked because a float valve wasn't sealing perfectly.
I'm well aware of the "straw test" you describe. Who hasn't played with their straw like that at the table? But I doubt any of us ever held the straw for an extended time to see if drops will slowly come out. So I thought I'd go check.
With a straw in a cup of water, I pulled the straw STRAIGHT UP and out with my thumb tightly on the end and several times the straw dripped several drops. If I was real careful with removing the straw, the drops were much slower. But after waiting a couple minutes, drops always slowly came out. I figured maybe the straw is flimsy and my thumb may have moved a bit? Not a good test really.
So next, I used a 5/16" fuel line. I used water in the same 4" deep cup. I dipped the line and collected the water. I put my thumb tight on the end and pulled it STRAIGHT UP and out. Sometimes I got just a drop or two fairly soon, and then only a drop in a few minutes. Again, I didn't wait too long, but I still believe that more drops would slowly come out if you held it a long time, such as overnight.
So if the line is held STRAIGHT UP (or similar to a bike on a centerstand), the leaking is much slower, but I'm not convinced it will always stop completely, given a long time.
But now try the very same test, pulling the line straight up, but now TILT the line (similar to the angle a bike leans on the sidestand.) What happens? The fuel not only leaks, it FALLS out. Every time.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Re: can't find why its leaking

Re: can't find why its leaking

Well then Earl, I guess everything I'm saying is just BS then, right?
Hardly Keith.

................................. Did you ever look right at something and note what was obviously wrong and then find out that the obvious thing you saw, was a case of mistaken observation. I have done that.




Many times I've had a bike leaking fuel into the airbox or out the bowl overflow line. This same bike has a petcock that's been tested and it's good. The bike has a clear fuel line installed. The fuel is turned on and you can see the fuel line fill completely, not even a bubble. If the petcock is vacuum operated, it's returned to ON. If non-vacuum, it's turned to OFF. I'm watching what happens or monitoring the fuel level overnight. It drops until there's nothing in the line and if enough time is allowed, nothing in the passages I'm sure. Fuel starts collecting in drops at the boot or sometimes comes out the bowl overflow line.
...................................... What I am trying to say Keith is that if you have a clear fuel line and you can see the fuel level drop with the petcock shut off, then the petcock is leaking. It is physically impossible for fuel to flow through a tube that only has one end open. If the petcock is off, one end is effectively closed. So, no, the petcock is not "good".

Earl

Earl, I've seen this happen on two bikes that had brand new Pingel valves and one of those bikes was mine. The Pingels were in perfect shape. Both bikes leaked because a float valve wasn't sealing perfectly.
I'm well aware of the "straw test" you describe. Who hasn't played with their straw like that at the table? But I doubt any of us ever held the straw for an extended time to see if drops will slowly come out. So I thought I'd go check.
With a straw in a cup of water, I pulled the straw STRAIGHT UP and out with my thumb tightly on the end and several times the straw dripped several drops. If I was real careful with removing the straw, the drops were much slower. But after waiting a couple minutes, drops always slowly came out. I figured maybe the straw is flimsy and my thumb may have moved a bit? Not a good test really.
So next, I used a 5/16" fuel line. I used water in the same 4" deep cup. I dipped the line and collected the water. I put my thumb tight on the end and pulled it STRAIGHT UP and out. Sometimes I got just a drop or two fairly soon, and then only a drop in a few minutes. Again, I didn't wait too long, but I still believe that more drops would slowly come out if you held it a long time, such as overnight.
So if the line is held STRAIGHT UP (or similar to a bike on a centerstand), the leaking is much slower, but I'm not convinced it will always stop completely, given a long time.
But now try the very same test, pulling the line straight up, but now TILT the line (similar to the angle a bike leans on the sidestand.) What happens? The fuel not only leaks, it FALLS out. Every time.

Well??

 

[alan]

In theory if you have a tube full of fluid that is sealed at one end the fluid should stay in the tube because of the meniscus at the open end. It is the surface tension of the meniscus that keep the fliud in place like a little cap. If you tilt the tube too much and stretch the meniscus to far reducing the surface tension of the fluid it will eventually tear and the fluid will run out. The drinking straw trick would show this. The viscosity also has an effect of how far it will go before leaking. So, in my thoughts you are both essentially correct. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Alan, if you re-read all my words, I'm saying a carb can overflow from what's left over in the fuel line and carb passages. Without any doubt, when the bike is placed on the side stand, the fuel will drop out of the line and passages if any float valve can't seal perfectly. This can certainly cause a problem, especially when it happens every time the bike is parked. It doesn't matter if the petcock is good. It doesn't matter how tight the seal is at the top side of the tube. Earl says it's physically impossible for the water to come out, but doesn't take into consideration the angle mentioned.
If anyone doesn't believe it, just do the test yourself. Dip the fuel line, pull it up, and tilt it the same angle as a bike on the sidestand. The fuel spills out.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

cj, if you're still around, didn't mean to get side tracked, allthough this does have to do with your leaky carb, or leak you had.
I still think your high idle warmed up vs. cold, is an intake leak. Did I describe what's happening correctly?
Cj says she replaced the manifold o-rings. I'm not sure if she has good manifolds though? She could have a head gasket leaking, right?

 

[alan]

I was trying to follow you Keith and I hope that it does not happen to me today

I think CJ got the carb leak fixed and has moved on to another leak

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

I was trying to follow you Keith and I hope that it does not happen to me today

I think CJ got the carb leak fixed and has moved on to another leak

Her last post was about a high idle problem so I thought I'd help.
I don't know why Earl didn't respond. Doesn't matter I guess.
I just don't want people to automatically blame the petcock for what can be a leaking float valve, as my test proves.

 

[Anonymous]

leaky carb fixed. It was the float sticking. I did what someone told me and hit it with a block of wood after it was installed on the bike and presto we are good.

I still have a slight increase in rmps but only about 100 to 200 and I am not going to worry about that.

I went from carb to a oil leak at the clutch cover but have that stopped with indianhead gasket shellac until the new gasket gets here.

So I think I can finally wash the bike now and get rid of all the oil. At least I will never have to worry about rust. lol

The only problem I have now is she will not start below 50 degrees without a shot of starting fluid. that has been since I have had her. I thought the new carb rebuild would take care of that but it did not.

thanks for the help.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

The only problem I have now is she will not start below 50 degrees without a shot of starting fluid. that has been since I have had her. I thought the new carb rebuild would take care of that but it did not.

That would be either a choke circuit problem, pilot circuit problem, or both.
Sounds like you plan to just live with it. You might want to make sure the choke cable is adjusted so the choke plungers are rising enough. Mixture screws adjustments might help too.
More often, the starter jet in the choke tube gets blocked up. The hole is very small in the starter jet and needs close attention when cleaning.

 

[Anonymous]

How to adjust choke cable??

How to adjust choke cable??

How do you adjust the choke cable? All I see is the bracket that holds it and it holds it at the metal section before the cable heads to the carb.

At the top on the choke knob. The mechanic has it so it comes up about 2 1/2 inches before it stops when pulling it up. Now when the choke cable is not engaged I see a slight bow in the cable (not the housing, but the cable) as it heads to the carb. Is there suppose to be a bow in it?

Where is this starter jet located. I did replace all the jets and such that I new about in a rebuild kit.

thanks

 

[Anonymous]

Mixture outs

Mixture outs

Also forgot I have the mixtures out 3 turns.

 

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Re: How to adjust choke cable??

Re: How to adjust choke cable??

How do you adjust the choke cable? All I see is the bracket that holds it and it holds it at the metal section before the cable heads to the carb.

At the top on the choke knob. The mechanic has it so it comes up about 2 1/2 inches before it stops when pulling it up. Now when the choke cable is not engaged I see a slight bow in the cable (not the housing, but the cable) as it heads to the carb. Is there suppose to be a bow in it?

Where is this starter jet located. I did replace all the jets and such that I new about in a rebuild kit.

thanks

There should be a bracket mounted to the carbs that has a threaded adjustable sleeve the cable end slips into. Turning this out, takes up slack, turning it in increases slack.
I've never considered how high the pull knob should rise or if there's a bow in the cable at some point. The choke cable should be adjusted to fully open the plungers and close them just before the pull knob is completely down. There should be a couple mm of slack after closing. Only you can look and see if the plungers are rising enough. If the cable is routed correctly and is the correct cable and adjusted as I said, then the plungers should be operating right. If not, they're varnished or dirty.
The starter jet is not a jet you replace as you do other jets. The starter jet is inside a brass tube that comes down from the carb body into the float bowl. You should see it easily with the bowl off. The starter jet hole is very small and clogs easily. You can use carb spray and small wire or mono-filament line to clean it out. Also clean the little holes in the starter tube/bleed pipe.

 

[Sandy]

I just jumped into this post and noticed the comment on using starter fluid to start and some choke issues, scrolled back a bit and noticed the comment about some crud in the tank. I didn't have time to read the whole post but have you checked the little orfice in the float bowl that allows fuel into the choke tube reservior. That's the small tubular reservior in the float bowl and the tiny orifice at the bottom can easily get plugged with debris and not allow fuel to the choke tube.