Methanol

[Skids-2008]

Gidday .

I Road Race a GS 1000 S in New Zealand . I am building a pretty reasonable engine , It is basically Smithys Pussy engine but I have not but it together yet . So as you may or may not know it has a Ported head , Big valves , 380" lift cams ,High comp pistons , Copper head gasket , Crankshaft done by Falicon , Yoshi exhaust , 33mm CRs , Billet Clutch , ect.

What my question is ?--
I have found out that I can legally run on methanol and I would like to know what modifications I would have to make to this set up to do so ?.

My reasons for running this fuel is a simple case of trying to make more power and on the flip side try to keep combustion temperature's down. Some were in this set up I also need reliability.

O Yeah , Carburetor's have to be CRs.

Any help would be mint. ray:

Cheers.

 

[KiwiGS]

Hey mate
Back in the day I used to race chairs and we used Methanol.
Some basic rules of thumb were comp ratio needed to be higher 12.5-13:1
from memory and the jets needed to be twice as big ie you use 2x more meth than pump gas per compression.
The meth engine ran cooler, but there was a chance of bore washing if the jets were too big.
Remember this is just off the top of my head mate.
Cheers
Oh and you will need to drain/clean the carbs after each meeting.
We used to run pump gas through after the last race.

 

[Skids-2008]

Hey Cheers Mate.

 

[rosco15]

Can you get E85. Runs cooler and makes more power. You need to jet up around 30%. Methanal you will need to go up about 50%.

 

[tone]

Methonol will poison you through skin contact even contact with engine parts from an engine run on methonol can do this, dont ask how i know but be carefull fella

 

[Skids-2008]

Can you get E85. Runs cooler and makes more power. You need to jet up around 30%. Methanal you will need to go up about 50%.

Gidday Mate.
Yeah I have never seen E85 but I will do some home work and see if the local speed shop can get it in.

Cheers Mate.

 

[Skids-2008]

Methonol will poison you through skin contact even contact with engine parts from an engine run on methonol can do this, dont ask how i know but be carefull fella

Gidday Mate.

That dosent sound too good , can I still get poisoned if i am wearing gloves ?.

Cheers Mate.

 

[Old Colt]

E85 is an American blend of Ethanol and regular gas. It is only available in the dryer parts of the States since it has a very short storage life and draws in moisture very quickly.
Where I live is humid, we go out of our way to buy fuel with no alcohol for road use.

The moisture will also be something you will need to pay attention to. If the fuel is exposed to the atmosphere at all before you run it, it draws in moisture and starts to turn to a corrosive jelly. The racers that run Methanol do not even open any drum of fuel they suspect not having a perfect seal.
Hence why KiwiGS suggests a thorough cleanout after running. This is true with the oil also, it can turn to a jelly due to any fuel getting in it.

I sure hope you are willing to deal with the hassles and safety issues with this fuel. To me there are better ways to make power, especially for road racing, Your fuel tank big enough on that bike?

 

[KiwiGS]

E85 is an American blend of Ethanol and regular gas. It is only available in the dryer parts of the States since it has a very short storage life and draws in moisture very quickly.
Where I live is humid, we go out of our way to buy fuel with no alcohol for road use.

The moisture will also be something you will need to pay attention to. If the fuel is exposed to the atmosphere at all before you run it, it draws in moisture and starts to turn to a corrosive jelly. The racers that run Methanol do not even open any drum of fuel they suspect not having a perfect seal.
Hence why KiwiGS suggests a thorough cleanout after running. This is true with the oil also, it can turn to a jelly due to any fuel getting in it.

I sure hope you are willing to deal with the hassles and safety issues with this fuel. To me there are better ways to make power, especially for road racing, Your fuel tank big enough on that bike?

Old colt makes a very good point, one I was alluding to.
On the the 'chair there was only enough in the tank for 6 laps of a 1/4 mile circuit. While your post classic will have a bigger tank it is still something to consider.
You can get E85 in NZ. Quite a few car classes run it, even the V8 supercars.
Cheers

 

[Zooks]

The fire danger with alcohols is one reason not to use it. Anybody that has ever spent any time around speedway will tell you how bloody dangerous that stuff is. Your bike could be on fire and the first you'd know about it is when your skin starts sizzling & cooking. The problem is that alcohol burns almost 'invisible' - no smoke and virtually 'clear' flames.

If you've ever seen a midget or sprintcar catch fire you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[Turtle]

Have a chat to some of the guys that you race with . I an sure you will be supprised at the amount of help that you get , and you will find that running methanol with the correct jetting ( the figures have been done so many times over the years , it is easy to find information) you will get a substantial power increase at full throttle setting and a noticeable lack of responce and control at low power settings. When used in speedway bikes, the throttle settings are generally WOT to just off that so your best bet is to seek advice form fellow racers regarding suitability for your bike for road racing.

 

[sharpy]

That E85 stuff the V8s are runing on is a joke. There doing it for the enviroment but as they use 25% more for the same power and they did a study on it, all things being equal its only better by 3%. So much for "green" fuel. LOL

 

[rosco15]

I agree for a road car it's a joke. For a race bike it's great stuff. I run faster and more consistently than I did on the $10 a gallon VP racing gas at 1/4 the cost. I ran it last summer with no issues. It's some funny stinky smelling stuff. Not at all sweet like the race gas. On race gas the fumes from the bike would choke me out when I would run it in the garage. You hardly notice the fumes on the e85.

You do need to keep the fuel sealed tight. it does attract moisture easily. I ran off the same 55 gallon drum all summer with no issues. Also I wouldn't leave it in the bike for long term storage. Any time the bike was sitting for more than a week or two I would drain out the e85 and run some regular gas thru the system.

 

[duaneage]

without higher compression to take advantage of the increased octane, meth is a waste. Follow all the suggestions here, especially the fuel flow and compression requirements, and you should see an advantage. I doubt it is worth the effort when av-gas or race fuel is pretty potent stuff without the special requirements.

Also, increase the fuel line size and petcock capacity. At high RPM you might run into starvation problems.

 

[Skids-2008]

Gidday .

Yeah I hear what you are all saying , Looking at my compression figures I will need to find a bit more ( tiny little bit ). My fuel capacity will be adequate for the most part but will run in to problems in the enduros witch will properly make this meth idear a waist of effort when I'm fueling up twice as much as everyone else. Maybe I should stick to Av gas and just go on a diet.

Yeah I don't really want to talk about this to my racing buddies because I trying to sneak Up and thrash them when they are not looking !!.

Thanks to everyone for giving me a hand with this meth idea. I might look at some other alternative's to make this beast move.

Cheers Lads .
Nath.

 

[Old Colt]

I sure do not want to be around when you are hot refueling in an endurance, not with the low flashpoint of that fuel.

If you are trying to make horsepower Avgas is not the way to go. It is formulated with a rather high vapor pressure and only a moderate caloric value.
To make power your are best with the real race fuels, they are blended to provide a high caloric value, that is a high heat per KG of fuel. The Methanol does this by needing allot of fuel with a fast burn, the race gas does it by burning hot and quick. Avgas is a moderate and slow burn, it wants a more advanced ignition timing to get complete burn.
Problem with more advance is the chamber pressure is rising before TDC so it is pushing down on the piston to early, trying to stop the crank rather than accelerate it. You want the least amount of timing and still get a full burn, this way the pressure is after TDC and pushing the crank the proper way and not trying to stop it as any pressure rise before TDC will be doing.
I came to understand this when I started tuning turbo engines with just 12-13? of timing. The crank keeps getting accelerated.
I would concentrate on getting the most compact chamber with the tightest squish area. The larger the percentage of squish area the quicker the burn in the chamber will will be. Therefore the least time needed to complete the burn.

 

[hp1000s]

E85 is an American blend of Ethanol and regular gas. It is only available in the dryer parts of the States since it has a very short storage life and draws in moisture very quickly.
Where I live is humid, we go out of our way to buy fuel with no alcohol for road use.

I wish that was true...almost everywhere along the Interstate I95 corridor uses E85 because of the "high traffic saturation" according to Uncle Sam. We can't get good old gasoline here. It kills us here, both on the coast and adjacent to the Chesapeake Bay...and it's especially tough on boats that sit unused all winter long...stabilizer products are only marginally effective against phase-separation that occurs after sitting & water absorbtion.

 

[Old Colt]

OT, I need to get down to the Annapolis area in the next month or so, sounds like I should travel on I81 and cross over then?
I might be able to borrow a diesel rig so it might not matter.

 

[hp1000s]

If you can find non E85, that's where it's gonna' be....and I'd appreciate it if you'd bring along a spare 2 or 3 thousand gallons for me! If you're going to be around for any length of time, I could help you find a good sandwich & cold adult beverage.
Hugh

 

[Old Colt]

I expect to just be one night in Lothian and then headed back north. Probably be on a weeknight.
Humm I wonder how many barrels I can muster up?