More coil relay mod help....

[xxBenJamminxx]

Well I got all the stuff for the mod and already hit a snag.

I opened up my wiring harness and instead of having all 4 orange/white wires coming together into one like the tutorial says, I have 3 that all join to one above the carbs and the 4th just runs past that junction further into the wiring harness. Do I need to keep cutting further back in the harness and will find a spot where the 4th joins the wire feeding the other 3? Wiring is not my thing and any help would be appreciated.

Bike: 1982 GS550L


One other question when testing the front primary (i think) side both coils show about 4 ohm but when I test the other side (via plug boot and one wire from coil) I get 0 ohms. Is this right?

 

[posplayr]

Well I got all the stuff for the mod and already hit a snag.

I opened up my wiring harness and instead of having all 4 orange/white wires coming together into one like the tutorial says, I have 3 that all join to one above the carbs and the 4th just runs past that junction further into the wiring harness. Do I need to keep cutting further back in the harness and will find a spot where the 4th joins the wire feeding the other 3? Wiring is not my thing and any help would be appreciated.

Bike: 1982 GS550L


One other question when testing the front primary (i think) side both coils show about 4 ohm but when I test the other side (via plug boot and one wire from coil) I get 0 ohms. Is this right?

If you look at your schematic, the O/W is the ignition circuit which powers both coils and the ignitor. You should power all three. You only need to separate the O/W circuit from the power coming from the Kill switch. Replace that with power coming from your new relay.

So more than likely the wire continues into the harness to get to the ignitor. You can confirm by using an ohm meter on the ignitor plug to the 3 wire joint.

Actually you don't need to open up the harness, you can usually cut the Kill switch power at the (right hand switch)connector.

This includes the Dyna S control, but if you ignitor that part the rest still applies. Get rid of your Stator Loop from the R/R to left hand switch and you will free up a wire inside of the harness to route the kill switch signal to a relay mounted in back.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=141055&highlight=coil+relay+mod

 

[xxBenJamminxx]

Sorry I am not sure I follow.


Here are the 3 wires that go into one. The one with black tape on it shows power with the kill switch in the run position and no power in the off position. Other 2 go to the coils.



Here is the 4th wire that runs into the harness further. Are you saying I cut the wire that only has power on run and run that into the number 86 on the relay, 85 would be a new ground I make, 87 would be BOTH the wires that go to the coil, and 30 comes from the battery with a fuse on it?

 

[850GT_Rider]

Sorry I am not sure I follow.


Here are the 3 wires that go into one. The one with black tape on it shows power with the kill switch in the run position and no power in the off position. Other 2 go to the coils.



Here is the 4th wire that runs into the harness further. Are you saying I cut the wire that only has power on run and run that into the number 86 on the relay, 85 would be a new ground I make, 87 would be BOTH the wires that go to the coil, and 30 comes from the battery with a fuse on it?

When I put in the coil relay mod, I abandoned ALL those wires. Ran all new ones in a heavier gauge.

 

[xxBenJamminxx]

So do i hook up the wire from kill switch that only has power to 86, power to 30, ground to 85 and then just hook new wires from 87 to the O/W leads going into the coils?

Waiting before I start cutting anything....

 

[xxBenJamminxx]

Alright so I have power to the relay and up to the coils if ground it out on the battery but if test from power wire to coil to the ground (black or white) wire I get no power. Therefor obviously I have no spark right now after hooking it up.

Should I have to take the ground wires from the coils and ground them as well since I cut the O/W wires going to the coils and am powering them via a new wire off the relay (terminal 87)

 

[xxBenJamminxx]

Now for the heck of it I tried cutting the grounds and running them directly to the neg terminal on the battery and still no spark.

What did I do wrong now... so much for it takes as much time to remove the seat and tank as it does the mod. hahaha

 

[ptexotik]

Now for the heck of it I tried cutting the grounds and running them directly to the neg terminal on the battery and still no spark.

What did I do wrong now... so much for it takes as much time to remove the seat and tank as it does the mod. hahaha

The coil grounds are left alone. Your post (#5) looked right on to me.

 

[posplayr]

Sorry I am not sure I follow.


Here are the 3 wires that go into one. The one with black tape on it shows power with the kill switch in the run position and no power in the off position. Other 2 go to the coils.


Here is the 4th wire that runs into the harness further. Are you saying I cut the wire that only has power on run and run that into the number 86 on the relay, 85 would be a new ground I make, 87 would be BOTH the wires that go to the coil, and 30 comes from the battery with a fuse on it?

First off if all 4 wires are connected then you can't really tell which one is powering the set unless you disconnect the one that is powering the set.

So if you did not cut any wires then you don't have a valid test to find out which wire is coming from the kill switch. I know you have torn your harness apart according to the directions (you found) but there was really no need.

Putting that aside, if you want to work from the splayed out harness then work your way with the O/W toward the front of the bike that is where the Kill switch is located. You should be able to identify the O/W that goes to each coil. You need to cut before the kill switch signal gets to the coils so move in front of the coils to do your cut.The other end that goes toward the back of the bike is for the ignitior.

Once you decide which is the front of the bike and what O/W goes with that, but the wire. Then the Front part of the O/W cut should follow the power from the kill switch. The back side of the O/W cut should stay open.Then make the following connections

Pin 30 - Fused Battery (+)
Pin 87 - Back O/W cut**
Pin 86 - Front O/W cut**
Pin 85 - Ground

**Cut is to separate the ignition circuit(from coils to the back of the bike) from the kill switch toward the front of the bike (on handlebars).

This is really quite easy and you don't have to change any wires. As i said I don't even open up my harness just cut the kill switch line that is powering the ignition circuit.

While you have the harness open you should find the crimp where the wires connect and flow some solder into the crimp. If it is oxidized you may have to clean it with some naval jelly or other contact cleaner.

 

[posplayr]

When I put in the coil relay mod, I abandoned ALL those wires. Ran all new ones in a heavier gauge.

Generally it dirty or corroded contacts and connections that cause problems not the actual wire size.

 

[posplayr]

Now for the heck of it I tried cutting the grounds and running them directly to the neg terminal on the battery and still no spark.

What did I do wrong now... so much for it takes as much time to remove the seat and tank as it does the mod. hahaha

The coils spark when the ignitor opens a coil leg one at a time. If you grounded both directly to the battery, it ain't gonna work. Please don't get any more urges to experiment like that lest you do some actual damage.

 

[850GT_Rider]

Generally it dirty or corroded contacts and connections that cause problems not the actual wire size.

oh yeah - understood. But when I cut off the cruddy connectors to replace them, didn't like the corrosion and discoloration I saw wicking it's way up the conductors. Decided just to abandon them in place. Went up on size wire gauge, just because....that's the wire I had.

 

[xxBenJamminxx]

Ok thanks for the help guys. I must be making this harder then it has too. Let me recap what I think I know and see if you guys think Im on the right track here.



In this picture the O/W wire with the piece of tape I believe is the one coming back from the kill switch since it only shows 12.6v with the kill switch in the run postion. When on kill it shows 0.0v. The other 2 O/W wires next to that one go directly to the coils.



In this picture is the other O/W wire runs along along the other 3 and runs past where those 3 come together and are spliced into one. Is this the igniter wire?

So here is what I did so far.....

I made a new power wire with a 20 amp fuse inline to the relay terminal #30. I made a new ground to the frame and goes to the relay terminal #85. I cut the 2 O/W wires right in front of the coil wire plugs and spliced them together and then they go the relay terminal #87. Then I took the wire with the tape on it (which I thought was from the kill switch) and cut that and attached it to the relay terminal #86.

With that setup I was getting 12.5v to each coil right where the wire goes into the coil itself IF I grounded my volt meter to the neg side of the battery, but didnt get any spark from either coil. If I probed the other wire coming from the coil (again thinking it was a ground for the coil) I got nothing. So thinking that was a ground wire for the coils I cut them and put them directly to the neg terminal on the battery to see if that gave me spark, which it did not.

So was I wrong in thinking that the other wire (not the O/W) from the coil is not a ground but rather the wire coming from the igniter? If this is from the igniter should I reconnect those to 2 to the original wires instead of to the batteries neg side? Also if that is from the igniter do the coils just get their ground from where they bolt to the frame?

I guess I need the idiots guide here as I am not sure whats up here. Thought I had it figured out but after reading a few different tutorials I may have been thinking of this all wrong.

Thanks in advance, and am hopign to get back into the garage tonight and get this straightened out yet tonight.

 

[posplayr]

Ok thanks for the help guys. I must be making this harder then it has too. Let me recap what I think I know and see if you guys think Im on the right track here.



In this picture the O/W wire with the piece of tape I believe is the one coming back from the kill switch since it only shows 12.6v with the kill switch in the run postion. When on kill it shows 0.0v. The other 2 O/W wires next to that one go directly to the coils.



In this picture is the other O/W wire runs along along the other 3 and runs past where those 3 come together and are spliced into one. Is this the igniter wire?

So here is what I did so far.....

I made a new power wire with a 20 amp fuse inline to the relay terminal #30. I made a new ground to the frame and goes to the relay terminal #85. I cut the 2 O/W wires right in front of the coil wire plugs and spliced them together and then they go the relay terminal #87. Then I took the wire with the tape on it (which I thought was from the kill switch) and cut that and attached it to the relay terminal #86.

With that setup I was getting 12.5v to each coil right where the wire goes into the coil itself IF I grounded my volt meter to the neg side of the battery, but didnt get any spark from either coil. If I probed the other wire coming from the coil (again thinking it was a ground for the coil) I got nothing. So thinking that was a ground wire for the coils I cut them and put them directly to the neg terminal on the battery to see if that gave me spark, which it did not.

So was I wrong in thinking that the other wire (not the O/W) from the coil is not a ground but rather the wire coming from the igniter? If this is from the igniter should I reconnect those to 2 to the original wires instead of to the batteries neg side? Also if that is from the igniter do the coils just get their ground from where they bolt to the frame?

I guess I need the idiots guide here as I am not sure whats up here. Thought I had it figured out but after reading a few different tutorials I may have been thinking of this all wrong.

Thanks in advance, and am hopign to get back into the garage tonight and get this straightened out yet tonight.

You are close, but unfortunately no cigar; you apparently cut in the wrong place and thereby isolated the ignitor which I'm guessing is not powered.

If you look at the attached drawing you should be able to realize why it is not necessary to open the harness. You have to cut separate the whole ignition circuit from the kill switch. (to the left of the connector). I drew in the relay also.

 

[xxBenJamminxx]

Ok so from the diagram I think I have the wrong wire that comes from the kill switch since the one I used was bundled up with the other 2 that came from the coils. Which I think is the o/w wire that is between the coils and the igniter. I just figured since the other o/w wire had power whether the kill switch was on or off that was the power feeding to the kill switch and the other one which I cut was coming back from it. I am gonna go out and double check my stuff, but dont know if I should reconnect it back up as it was stock and then start over or what.... Wishing I never started this project now. Something so simple has me so stumped. Did i mention I hate wiring.

 

[posplayr]

Ok so from the diagram I think I have the wrong wire that comes from the kill switch since the one I used was bundled up with the other 2 that came from the coils. Which I think is the o/w wire that is between the coils and the igniter. I just figured since the other o/w wire had power whether the kill switch was on or off that was the power feeding to the kill switch and the other one which I cut was coming back from it. I am gonna go out and double check my stuff, but dont know if I should reconnect it back up as it was stock and then start over or what.... Wishing I never started this project now. Something so simple has me so stumped. Did i mention I hate wiring.

Electrical stuff is much easier if you don't hamstring yourself by trying to do it without using a schematic.

At the very least you should familiarize yourself with how the current is supposed to flow and then trace out all of those current paths by inspecting the harness.

You only have to make a cut "up stream" of the crimp (up stream is toward the kill switch). It could be right in front of the crimp or all the way in front of the connector.

I mentioned before that before you cut anything, all wires are common and so the voltage on all of them will follow the kill switch. That lead you to believe the wrong wire was the right wire.

Follow the schematic now that I drew it.

 

[xxBenJamminxx]

Electrical stuff is much easier if you don't hamstring yourself by trying to do it without using a schematic.

At the very least you should familiarize yourself with how the current is supposed to flow and then trace out all of those current paths by inspecting the harness.

You only have to make a cut "up stream" of the crimp (up stream is toward the kill switch). It could be right in front of the crimp or all the way in front of the connector.

I mentioned before that before you cut anything, all wires are common and so the voltage on all of them will follow the kill switch. That lead you to believe the wrong wire was the right wire.

Follow the schematic now that I drew it.

I did look over the schematic several times but in haste and a mobile meat salesman popping right in the middle of it, and sealing my driveway I must of mixed up what I was thinking. Thats why it had me so stumped. I had thought it through so many times at work studying wiring diagrams and reading post via my phone I knew what needed to be done but when the time came I dropped the ball. Thats what I get for having several projects going at once...

Id like to say thank you very much for the simple diagram that showed me exactly what I missed. All I had to do was connect the O/W wire that went down towards the engine that powered the igniter to the other 2 power wires going to the coils. Suppose its hard to get spark without power to that.... and then reconnected the other 2 coil wires back to their original circuit.

Anyhow with it working properly now all I can say wow. Before I had to shade the plug with my hand to see if there was spark or not in the light. Now its actually a healthy big blue spark! Just bumping the starter to test for spark with only 3 plugs in would make it fire right up without the choke. It wasnt a hard starter before but would spin over a time or two before firing. Now it seems as soon as the first compression stroke it hits the bike is running. Unfortunately it started to rain about 20 min ago so will have to wait til morning to take it for a test drive.

Once again thanks for your patience and help. Its greatly appreciated! :clap:

 

[posplayr]

I did look over the schematic several times but in haste and a mobile meat salesman popping right in the middle of it, and sealing my driveway I must of mixed up what I was thinking. Thats why it had me so stumped. I had thought it through so many times at work studying wiring diagrams and reading post via my phone I knew what needed to be done but when the time came I dropped the ball. Thats what I get for having several projects going at once...

Id like to say thank you very much for the simple diagram that showed me exactly what I missed. All I had to do was connect the O/W wire that went down towards the engine that powered the igniter to the other 2 power wires going to the coils. Suppose its hard to get spark without power to that.... and then reconnected the other 2 coil wires back to their original circuit.

Anyhow with it working properly now all I can say wow. Before I had to shade the plug with my hand to see if there was spark or not in the light. Now its actually a healthy big blue spark! Just bumping the starter to test for spark with only 3 plugs in would make it fire right up without the choke. It wasnt a hard starter before but would spin over a time or two before firing. Now it seems as soon as the first compression stroke it hits the bike is running. Unfortunately it started to rain about 20 min ago so will have to wait til morning to take it for a test drive.

Once again thanks for your patience and help. Its greatly appreciated! :clap:

Glad you got it going however in the future you would be well to at least draw up the modification that you think you are going to make. I know that is a little more work, but you would have been done instead of stumped. Given all the time spent on "thinking about it", the simple schematic (comparable to what I drew) would have been less time in the end.

I'm emphasizing this not only to you but anybody else that thinks electrical wiring is hard or mysterious. Most of the electrical circuit changes on these old bikes can be solved by relative laymen by just drawing a simple diagram of which way the current will flow.

For myself, having studied these modifications in depth, I have the schematic imprinted in my mind, but most others that have not made the same changes should draw up a simple schematic as a guide.

Anyhow good work on this challenge, last night I though you were going to throw in the towel; you showed great perseverance to get that done before your bed time last nite.:clap: