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My problem is down to the Emgo air filters (too rich)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
  • Start date Start date
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Anonymous

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I was adjusting my carburetion and am still wrestling with a changing flat spot.
I decided a while back to complete my stage 3 kit with using Emgo pod air filters.
The symptoms are that the bike was running too rich. It had big flat spots no matter where I put the needles. I had 138 mains and the needles set on position 3. When I took off the filters it ran perfectly with no flat spot. So I called Dynojet and they suggested 134?s. I went to 134s and with the filters it has a flat spot. I have now positioned the needle as lean as possible and it runs OK but I developed a ? turn throttle problem. I adjusted the pilot screw to 4 1/2 turns out and it seems to run OK below 4000 now. I don?t like the current setup with the lowest needle position ( lean ) and having to go 4 ? turns on the pilot screw. I think K&N filters should get me where I need to go. I am looking to buy K&N filters because I think I will be able to put the 138?s back in and go back to normal needle positions and still have an opportunity for fine tuning.
I don?t like unscrewing the pilot jet that much. I never thought pod air filters could be so restrictive. For those with jetting issues with running too rich, try taking the air filters off and see how the bike runs it may surprise you.
 
I don?t like unscrewing the pilot jet that much. I never thought pod air filters could be so restrictive. For those with jetting issues with running too rich, try taking the air filters off and see how the bike runs it may surprise you.
Click to expand...

Or put the stock air box back in and see how good it runs! (Sorry, had to do that- there's always one in a crowd).
 
i had the same problem with my 550, running a stg 3 kit using cheap ass emgo stlye pods, went with the k and n's that the kit was designed for and the bike now kicks ass runs perfect. Do your self a favor buy the k and n's recomended and use the dynojet settings that they orgianlly said, you should be golden.

Another Story of how much emgo's and the likes suck, DON"T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THESE CHEAP FILTERS!


-ryan
 
Emgo's are great from my experiences, no problems whatsoever. I really don't think your tuning problem lies in the air filters, but if you've got it down to that, order the $30 a piece filters and see if it improves. ;)

FYI to the group, I compared some filters on a flowbench last spring. A round K&N flowed about 5% less than the open oriface. An Emgo tapered filter flowed 2% MORE than the open oriface, due to it's shape pulling air in better. =D>

~Adam
 
I appreciate your input on the Emgo's but when I take them off, the bike runs great with no flat spots, when I put them on it runs like crap.
The bike is too rich with the Emgo's. I don't like to have to run with 134's with the max lean needle setting and a pilot screw at 4.5 turns. What happens when I climb a mountain pass, I am at 700 feet currently.

Its a big surprise to me I can't beleive it gives enough resistance to cause the bike to run so badly but its night and day.

I hope to sell the Emgo's on Ebay for almost any price once I get the K&N filters installed. I am looking for a set of K&N's rite now on Ebay.

Ian
 
adam i know you have your tests but in real life it was a totally diffrent story, I also stand by my tuning 100% as it was speced by dynojet not some back yard project. you on the other hand you are not running a specfic jet kit nor do you have the cv style carbs so that may also matter. You may be able to go even bigger on the jets and maybe a higher needle.

Do a little test if you are bored, take your filters off your bike and do a couple miles see how the bike runs, do a plug test too to see if it is leaner. Let me know what you come up with. This is basiclly how i discovered that the filters i had were at fault as well as coug66 too. so the reverse should work for you. this problem only shows at 6500 + rpms. if you run without filters it will show lean conditions for you in the high rpms like back fire on decel and stuff.

-ryan
 
Yup. DJ, K&N, Factory...they all recommend K&N filters and that's what the jet kits are designed to run with.
 
you on the other hand you are not running a specfic jet kit nor do you have the cv style carbs so that may also matter. You may be able to go even bigger on the jets and maybe a higher needle.
Click to expand...

I suppose CV carbs might be more picky...which is why I may not have problems with them. They never did offer a jet kit for the pre-80 550 (at least not today) so figuring it out was the only option.

My needle is at the original clip (much to my surprise), the pilot jet is original size, the main is 25-30 higher, and the pilots are all 1/2'ish open.

Flowbench testing with Emgo filter:
482%20042.jpg


~Adam
 
hey adam seriouly I'm not trying to goad you into doing anything but am really curious on how your bike runs without the filters, if you feel up to it and have a litlte extra time could you give it a try and see what happens.

hey you are't flow testing carbs in that picture, FI is a diffrent beast.


-Ryan
 
I can tell you for a fact that the Emgo's don't flow as well as the K&N's.
I recently talked a riding buddy into swapping his Emgo's for K&N ovals. His Kawasaki 900 is bored to 1015 and has a Kerker 4-1 also. It runs pretty good he says, but he was aware it was running rich with us telling him his exhaust was heavy during acceleration. His plugs were on the dark side too. He was riding the bike this way for several months since he bought it.
On our latest ride he put the K&N's on, properly oiled. No other changes were made.
He says the bike feels much better now. Under hard acceleration, his exhaust is clean. If he idles for 1/2 minute or so and opens it up quickly, a little puff of black still comes out, but it's much better. His plugs are now acceptable, just need some minor tuning.
This isn't the first time either.
 
first timer said:
i had the same problem with my 550, running a stg 3 kit using cheap ass emgo stlye pods, went with the k and n's that the kit was designed for and the bike now kicks ass runs perfect. Do your self a favor buy the k and n's recomended and use the dynojet settings that they orgianlly said, you should be golden.

Another Story of how much emgo's and the likes suck, DON"T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THESE CHEAP FILTERS!


-ryan
Click to expand...

I thought I was the only one that felt that way? It is a case of "you get what you pay for" for sure.

The only way your going to test a cheap Emgo air filter and have it flow better than a K&N is if the K&N was not properly cleaned and oiled.

Plus I know a local mechanic :wink: who has flow tested them both as well on his flow bench and the main thing he says makes the Emgo's an absolute no no on any multi carb bike is that they flow inconsistantly from one filter to another. The K&N's all flow almost identicle even from several sets bought at different times. The Emgo's however all come out different. Every filter has it's own flow rate.

Another thing to consider is while the Emgo filters cost less that is because when they get spent you chuck them and buy more. Don't even think about trying to clean them and put them back on your bike.

The K&N's however with proper care will last a lifetime. So in affect they are much cheaper if you ride a lot.

Take that for what it is worth. Spend your money wisely.

Your on the right path dood.
 
Hmmm...that would explain why the 122 Mikuni jets that came with my dynojet kit didn't work and I had to use 115's!! :(

It would also explain the stinky exhaust I've had since I went to these pods.

*sigh* another expense to add onto the list...

Maybe I could just run filterless...Nah.
:p
 
I ran my Kat 1100 with stage III filterless for a while, put the K&N's on when I got them in and there was no difference in performance whatsoever, so they don't restrict the flow, BUT these are the oval ones!

My girls Kat has brandless filters and is definitely slower, but that could have lotts of other reasons of course.
 
Ryan, I'm not sure I want to run it without filters for a long period...so we'll see. I honestly don't have a problem with the way it runs, and you've even ridden it. It's pretty dialed in.

As for the FI flow...flow rate is air moving, regardless of whether it's in a carb or FI throttle body, it still has to flow through the filter. I used the throttle body and restricter there to test the filter because we had a plate made for the flowbench.

Keith, K&N ovals (of the similar) size flow worse than Emgo's by 4-6%. I wrote the numbers down somewhere when I did it a year ago, but I'm not sure exactly where. Perhaps the ovals your buddy is using are a bigger flow area than the Emgo's he had on their. That's the only way it makes sense to run less rich because a conical filter will always flow more air than an oval (sealed end).

~Adam
 
Just a thought. You didn't oil your emgo filters did you? My experience with emgo's in the past is that have nearly no restriction and we often joked that we just ran emgo's to filter out small boulders in the event of a crash. :)
 
Hmmm, I made the mistake of oiling my emgos when I first got them.
Made tuning hell.

Cleaned off the oil and tuning was much easier.
Don't know if that had any long term ramifications but they seem to be sucking air pretty good.

:roll:
 
Adam, the ovals my friend bought are the same as mine. K&N P/N RC 2454.
I know you stand by your test, as I stand by my actual riding test/comparison methods. The results I stated earlier have happened a few times.
Besides being more resrictive, regardless of shape, the cheaper pods don't clean the air as well either.
 
What a difference it made my needles were on the 3rd clip with 138 dyno mains. I took the bike out without the emgo's and it rocked pulled hard in all the gears and went from 1/4 turn to wide open without any hesitation. Put the Emgo's back on and here comes the big flat spot. I had to coax thethrottle to get the bike to full RPM.

I would run without filters at all if it wern't that I want my engine to last.

My hope is that other GSers looking to save a buck will save their money and buy a set of K&N's. I do think that Emgo's would be a good alternate to the stock setup. You could put them on and not have to screw with the carburation. You would have the better look and the ease of access to the carbs without the rejetting pain.
 
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