Need help tuning, beyond basics

[Demonthrall]

My 1982 GS550L varies its idle + or - 300 rpms, and there is a little lag when I pull the throttle. I noticed this after de winterizing her.

I have done a ton of stuff to Suzie, and this site has helped so much. I have to give history, so you know the good bad and ugly before you can help me. As you will read, there are a couple things it could be, so if there is some sort of consensus on "Order Of Attack" that would help!!!

Here is some information about what I've done so far:

This Spring
-Adjusted valves, only had to change 3 shims, all on the exhaust side
-cleaned carbs, using dip, and compressor, and carb spray. I do this every spring
-put a washer underneath the stock needle, to raise height slightly
-New spark plugs
-Clean gas tank, new gas
-adjusted mizture screws


Here is what I have done in the past two years:

-Replaced intake boot rings, and all the other seals in the carbs. I cannot get the RPMs to spike by spraying caarb spray around the boots, which tells me I should be ok.
-redid head gasket
-replaced breather hose with small k&n filter
-replaced throttle cable
-put air intake pods on, in place of air box. I realize this will raise a flag right away, but the condition the airbox was in was unrevive-able. I have done plug chops in the past, and I dont feel its running too lean, but of course it could be.
-I have tried replacing the stock #40 pilot with #42.5, but it didnt run right, so the stock is in there again.



Here are some concerns:

-I think the exhaust port #1 has a small crack on the engine block, probably from the bolt being overtightened in the past
-The previous owner seems to have drilled the baffles. I dont know this, but due to the characteristics, I just feel its true.


I am sure I left some stuff out, but Please advise, I appreciate it!


Jim

 

[providedrailroad]

Did you replace the main jet or needle after putting the pods on the bike? If you haven't I would start there just because you're probably running lean, but if it's around your idle I would start by adjusting the idle screw and your pilot fuel screw.

Just my 2 cents, by no means an expert.

 

[Demonthrall]

Thank you for the reply. I have a dyno stage 3 jet kit, which is the only compatible kit, apparently. The needle has no taper, and is basically a plug. I had it installed last year, and while it increased power, the driveability was terrible. I have the stock needle in again now. I have used the idle adjusting methods that are common here, but the variance in idle seems to exist regardless of mixture settings.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Thank you for the reply. I have a dyno stage 3 jet kit, which is the only compatible kit, apparently. The needle has no taper, and is basically a plug. I had it installed last year, and while it increased power, the driveability was terrible. I have the stock needle in again now. I have used the idle adjusting methods that are common here, but the variance in idle seems to exist regardless of mixture settings.

Where did you get this supposed stage three kit? DJ needles are sharp. They look like large sewing needles.

You cannot run pods with stock needles. It will fall on its face in the midrange.

 

[boontonmike]

Where did you get this supposed stage three kit? DJ needles are sharp. They look like large sewing needles.

You cannot run pods with stock needles. It will fall on its face in the midrange.

This is 100% accurate. I had stock needles in my carbs [pods and exhaust] and the thing wouldnt crack past idle.Tried shimming the needle up with washers, nothing. Just bogging, bogging, and more bogging. Put in the dynojet needles and guessed at 3rd clip from the top and already my carbs are almost full running condition. I might have to go up or down a notch to fine tune just off throttle, but it is a night and day comparison.

 

[Demonthrall]

Where did you get this supposed stage three kit? DJ needles are sharp. They look like large sewing needles.

You cannot run pods with stock needles. It will fall on its face in the midrange.

I got the stage 3 kit through some website I heard of from here. Starts with a Z I believe. They have a lot of stuff, I cannot remember, but if it is important, I can find it. I will attach pictures of the kit and needle. The DJ needle has much less of a taper than the stock needles, almost none. Again, it is a stage 3, which is ridiculous for a 550L, but the only one that would fit the model other than stock, so I thought I would try it.

I actually can run pods with stock needles, I estimate the way it is, its only losing about 20% in the midrange. This is another interesting situation, because there are only 2 pods, not 4 like you may be familiar with. I can take pics or give you the link if you like.

 

[Demonthrall]

Here is one of the pics of the DJ kit/needle

 

[Demonthrall]

Here is a pic of the needle. Very little taper. Again, this is a stage 3 kit, not 1 or 2. Do you think its a fake kit, is that why you brought it up?

 

[Demonthrall]

Any takers? I'll take pics or videos or whatever helps. Thank you in advance.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Any takers? I'll take pics or videos or whatever helps. Thank you in advance.

Where did you get that kit?? For starters the instruction sheet says its for an 82' 550 Katana. Which isnt your bike. Secondly, that kit looks used, has pilots in it which DynoJet kits don't include afaik, and has a bunch of crap in it that also wouldn't come with a kit. I think you got rooked.
I don't think you got it from Z1Enterprises.com because last I looked they don't sell DJ kits, and I don't think they'd have sold you some bunk crap because those guys are A++ in my book. Did you get it off eBay??
Also it's hard to see but those needles look like they have one slot in them. DJ needles have five-ish. Are those valve shims in that box? I hate to say it but someone screwed you over.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Also, you say you have two pods...do you have siamese carbs? Can you take a pic of your bike please? I'm thinking you may actually have an 83 model year 550L with the 16v engine...

 

[cowboyup3371]

Hey Josh, I just looked at Z1's site and they are carrying DJ kits for Suzuki's.

With that said, I think Josh is right and you ordered the wrong kit. Post up pictures of your carbs please.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Hey Josh, I just looked at Z1's site and they are carrying DJ kits for Suzuki's.

With that said, I think Josh is right and you ordered the wrong kit. Post up pictures of your carbs please.

Well that's not a DynoJet kit ive ever seen. They don't include pilot jets and those needles don't look adjustable, but the pic is pretty bad so imdunno. They also don't come with valve shims. And the jet kits have more than one main size usually. Those jets also look tarnished like they're used.

It's possible the 8v needles arent as pointy as the 16v but even still, if it's not the right kit, it's not the right kit.
DynoJet doesn't sell crap. They may not be the best kit out there for every model, but they work well enough that only the die hard HP junkie would notice if he wasn't getting the last ounce of power out of the bike. The certainly don't make the bike run worse if they were installed correctly.

So it's either not a real kit, the wrong kit for his bike, or he didn't install it per the instructions.
The only thing you should have to adjust is the needle clip position as they sometimes aren't quite accurate with the bike.

By the way a stage three kit should only be used in conjunction with pods and an aftermarket pipe. If you're using a stock exhaust you need to install the smaller of the two sizes of main jet they include...

 

[Demonthrall]

Ok, first of all, thanks for the replies!!!!

Second of all LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The shims, pilots, etc.... are all mine. I didnt even think about it. I have had the kit for a couple years, and store parts in there. I meant for you to see the documentation, packaging, and needle. The needle does have 5 spots for clips. I am pretty sure it is a DJ kit. One of the guys just said the needle should be sharp, where this one has very little taper.

With that being said, the kit is for the 1982 gs550M... They make nothing for the L version, which is what my bike is. I did indeed get it from Z1 Enterprises.

A stage 3 kit for the 82 550M was the only thing that Z1 said would fit. So I bought it. I have tried the middle 3 clip positions. No sense in the outer 2, since the middle three were enough. It is very extreme, and yes, supposed to have pods and aftermarket pipes.


I do have 4 carbs, and again no one makes ANYTHING for my bike, so I was able to fit two oval shaped pods over. I will take a pic, I am very proud, and maybe the only or ONE OF the only to have found a true K and N that fits.


So I am probably in unexplored territory with this bike, and these parts. That is where I come to you guys here. Thanks again! What now??

 

[TheCafeKid]

Well, you should know that your bike was basically unchanged in the engine department from inception until 83 when they went away and it turned into a 16v tscc motor. 77-79 would have had different head and VM carbs but afaik they're otherwise very very similar.
So, from 80-82 E or L they're the same motor. Meaning anything you find for an E motor will work. Pods should fit, as a matter of fact, pods for a 80 on 750, 850 and possibly even the larger bikes should fit those carbs. Personally I don't think the pods are the problem here. If you're running the pods, and a 4-1 exhaust you need to use the largest of the mains in the kit. The needle clip needs to be probably two slots up from the POINT (this raises the needle in the slide, and the needle jet, meaning more fuel comes sooner, making it richer...many people think the clip needs to go the other way...) the pilots should remain stock, mix screws two to three full turns out from seated.
If you're using stock pipes you may find that the smaller of the two mains is better. But I'd start with the big boy first.

This is ALL assumin that your carbs are in fact clean (disassembled dipped and new orings internally) and that you're not sucking air around your intake boots. If you haven't taken care of those things you must in order to start from a clean slate so to speak.
While the Katana 550 may have been a little "hotter" perhaps, I don't think it was so much so that the jetting in the kit is incorrect. As with almost all jet kits, the major needed component is in fact the needles. They're designed to work with high flow systems.

Now, another thing, you say it flags at 5500 rpm. This is a bit of a sour issue for me because revs have little to no bearing on what circuit(s) are active in the carbs. It's based on throttle position. So something that will help you isolate the problem circuit(s) is marking off your throttle sleeve with tape in 1/4 turn increments. The pilot circuit is in use from approx. idle to 1/4 throttle, needle from 1/4-3/4 and the main is 3/4 to WFO. If you mark this off on your throttle and then install the kit as I described and take her out and run her in second gear from 2k to redline and she flags, look and see where. She should pull all the way to red line fairly cleanly. If its in the 1/4-3/4 throttle range you know you need to play wih the needle clip selection a little....

 

[TheCafeKid]

Oh, did you drill the slide port out wih the small bit in the kit? You must do that or the slides will not lift fast enough...

 

[Demonthrall]

Ok.. Yes I did drill the slide ports.

As far as the pods, I will have to find a pic again. Any pod will fit the carb, you are right, but the way the L frame is, normal pods were too long, and the frame gets in the way. The double oval filters I have are very tight, but work.

Carbs are clean rings and boots are fine, in my first post I mention what I had done in terms of them. Carbs get dipped when cleaned.

The pipes are stock, but probably drilled.

The stage 3 kit when fully installed, gave great throttle range,, but it was just undriveable. It is either floored, or not. there is no sense of smooth acceleration at all. The changes between needle clip positions were so drastic. Obviously a stage 3 kit is too agressive, but like I said, I am a tinkerer, and this is all that was available, so why not?

I am more interested in driveability and fuel consumption now. I am starting to think from everyones help, that I need to get ahold of an airbox, and stock pipes. I dont want to though, that feels like failure to me.

Concerning the 5500rpm.... It is throttle position like you say, but adding the fact that it is only a 550, and I am 220lbs.... Thats where she bogs with stock carb set up. It is not clearly apparent which throttle positions are having the most trouble. Would it help if I took a vid with my droid while accelerating? Id be willing to if it would help you decide.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Ok.. Yes I did drill the slide ports.

As far as the pods, I will have to find a pic again. Any pod will fit the carb, you are right, but the way the L frame is, normal pods were too long, and the frame gets in the way. The double oval filters I have are very tight, but work.

Carbs are clean rings and boots are fine, in my first post I mention what I had done in terms of them. Carbs get dipped when cleaned.

The pipes are stock, but probably drilled.

The stage 3 kit when fully installed, gave great throttle range,, but it was just undriveable. It is either floored, or not. there is no sense of smooth acceleration at all. The changes between needle clip positions were so drastic. Obviously a stage 3 kit is too agressive, but like I said, I am a tinkerer, and this is all that was available, so why not?

I am more interested in driveability and fuel consumption now. I am starting to think from everyones help, that I need to get ahold of an airbox, and stock pipes. I dont want to though, that feels like failure to me.

Concerning the 5500rpm.... It is throttle position like you say, but adding the fact that it is only a 550, and I am 220lbs.... Thats where she bogs with stock carb set up. It is not clearly apparent which throttle positions are having the most trouble. Would it help if I took a vid with my droid while accelerating? Id be willing to if it would help you decide.

Just take some tape and mark your throttle. Start at closed, and mark 1/4 turn increments from there to wide open throttle. Then ride. When it breaks up, look down and note where the throttle is set when it's having issues.

 

[Demonthrall]

Go to this link to see the air filters:

http://www.bikebandit.com/k-n-dual-flange-oval-air-filter-chrome-centered

Each oval air filter has two round rubber holes that fit just perfect. The fact that the air filters are so flat is the only way they fit. I might have an installed pic somewhere, so you can see how the fram shape restricts the normal pods.