Never Assume!!!!!!!

[spyug]

I broke the cardinal rule, wasted three days and got everyones nickers in a twist. Don't ever assume........check it out. I feel like such a twit....again. Refer to my previous post seeking help with my starter.

Well thinking that my starter motor's brushes were out of phase I decided to pull it out this afternoon (slow day at work) and as soon as I had the cover off I saw what was happening. Can you guess?

Yup it was wired wrong. The ground line from the battery terminal was connected to the power post on the starter and the power lead from the solenoid was fixed to the engine block. Damn how obvious. Reversed it and viola........got some engine turn over.

If I had followed the lines and not assumed they were going to the correct spots I'd have realised it right away.

So thanks to all who helped and now I think I'm back on track.Whew, dodge a bullet there.

Now to get some fire in the hole.

Cheers all, I'm a happy camper again

 

[49er]

Wow, that's "a trap for young players". Thanks for sharing your experience.

I followed your post, but couldn't think how it would be possible to reverse the polarity like that.

Reversing the polarity at the battery would have done some nasty stuff elsewhere!

 

[1_v8_merc]

Yup, can't assume anything on these bikes.

They are just older, and you don't really know until you rip it apart.

-----------
I almost installed a rear tire last night, that had no air in it!

It was really low-light conditions, and was distracted and not paying attention.

I guess the air had leaked over night, because the Bead Broke somehow.
(only ONE side of the tire broke bead.....so I didn't see it!)

I woulda been Super mad, if I mounted that tire and realized it was flat, haha.

 

[posplayr]

Wow, that's "a trap for young players". Thanks for sharing your experience.

I followed your post, but couldn't think how it would be possible to reverse the polarity like that.

Reversing the polarity at the battery would have done some nasty stuff elsewhere!

I shutter to think I dont know how he did not end up with a bunch of fired wire. Apparently Sprug doesn't have a ground wire from the battery to the R/R .

 

[Guest]

Reversing the polarity at the battery would have done some nasty stuff elsewhere!

Actually the only thing i can think of that could suffer is the ignitor and if you have a turn signal cancel device than it could also be damaged and maybe an aftermarket R/R.



Besides that everything else would work normally.

Lights, horns, relays don't care when it comes to polarity on these bikes.

Of course there are exceptions,

Starters

LED's.

Gas gauge maybe.


But anyways, Glad its fixed !!


This one's going in the record books

 

[spyug]

Actually the only thing i can think of that could suffer is the ignitor and if you have a turn signal cancel device than it could also be damaged and maybe an aftermarket R/R.

Dammit, I knew there would be something else to consider. I should have disconnected the ignitor while fiddling with this. I hope I haven't managed to toast it.

Well I'll know soon enough when I try and fire it up.

Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Cheers (I hope)

 

[posplayr]

Actually the only thing i can think of that could suffer is the ignitor and if you have a turn signal cancel device than it could also be damaged and maybe an aftermarket R/R.



Besides that everything else would work normally.

Lights, horns, relays don't care when it comes to polarity on these bikes.

Of course there are exceptions,

Starters

LED's.

Gas gauge maybe.


But anyways, Glad its fixed !!


This one's going in the record books

I'm amazed but I guess that is a good thing

 

[spyug]

Well I found it but as mentioned it did take out the igniter. So the hunt begins for another one and if I can't find one then I've got a load of parts to unload I guess. Bummer.

Spyug

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Me too!

Me too!

I broke the cardinal rule, wasted three days and got everyones nickers in a twist. Don't ever assume........check it out. Yup it was wired wrong. The ground line from the battery terminal was connected to the power post on the starter and the power lead from the solenoid was fixed to the engine block. Damn how obvious. Reversed it and viola........got some engine turn over.

Yes, I got a bike for cost because it had a mystery problem, the PO thought it was a busted starter clutch because the starter would spin but not engage.
I took the starter out and just for curiosity spun the gear with my finger, it only spun in 1 direction?
DUH? I traced the starter cable to the solenoid and found them reversed, so the starter spun backwards!
Great bike with only 10,000 miles!
Bill

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

I broke the cardinal rule, wasted three days and got everyones nickers in a twist. Don't ever assume........check it out. I feel like such a twit....again. Refer to my previous post seeking help with my starter.

Well thinking that my starter motor's brushes were out of phase I decided to pull it out this afternoon (slow day at work) and as soon as I had the cover off I saw what was happening. Can you guess?

Yup it was wired wrong. The ground line from the battery terminal was connected to the power post on the starter and the power lead from the solenoid was fixed to the engine block. Damn how obvious. Reversed it and viola........got some engine turn over.

If I had followed the lines and not assumed they were going to the correct spots I'd have realised it right away.

So thanks to all who helped and now I think I'm back on track.Whew, dodge a bullet there.

Now to get some fire in the hole.

Cheers all, I'm a happy camper again

To be fair you made a presumption not an assumption.

 

[chuck hahn]

not a waste at all!! m you learned a bit about the starter clutch as well..

 

[spyug]

Thanks again for the kind words but its cold comfort if I can't locate another igniter. I've been researching for the last couple of days and it seems that nothing short of an original Zuk box for an 83 550 will work. There doesn't seem to be any interchangeability and it doesn't seem that there are any after market alternatives.

I'm wishing now that the starter motor or clutch had been buggered as those would have been easier to fix.

Well the hunt begins and in the meanwhile I guess I'll concentrate on the 750 tuneup and finishing off the Kat project.

Cheers all,
Spyug

 

[7981GS]

Wasn't there a 550 parts bike in the For Sale/Parts section not too long ago?

Daniel

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

So is this a 550 or a 750?

 

[Guest]

He has both Jeep,

A 550 with the starter and ignitor issue and the 750 with the usual cleanup and tuning to do.


I need to check some wiring diagrams to be sure but I believe that looking and the connections from your old ignitor and then compare them to any suzuki 4 cylinder ignitor from your year or earlier.

you could find the wiring diagram for the new ignitor and compare it to yours.

If It matches.

As in, they both have:

Non mechanical advance.

Wires For:

Power in
Ground
signal generator in
signal generator in
Coil 1
Coil 2


You could splice the wires from yours to those if the connector isn't a direct fit.

It would be best to get one from one that matches the way yours is set up.

I'll see what I can match up.

If anyone has any ideas?



Just did some research

So far: from the diagram from an 83 550es "which is all i have".

Ground is black with white stripe.
Power is Orange and white stripe
Negative for Coil for 1 and 4 is White
Negative for Coil for 2 and 3 is Black with yellow stripe
Signal generator Left Brown
Signal generator middle B/W
Signal generator Right Green White.

Drawing and manual suggests that it is a non mechanical advance.



If you just want it to run. It would with the one from my 400 there wouldn't be any advance but it would run

 

[spyug]

Mekanix old buddy you are correct in your research of the wiring and that it does not have mechanical advance. Advance is handled by the igniter.

Now you would think that most any "modern" igniter should be able to be wired in but all the information in the archives indicates that is not the case. Nothing was found to work from what I've been able to read.

To make it more annoying there doesn't seem to be a Dyna box ( or other after market igniter) for that model either. There is some vague discussions of the Dyna "S" being capable of being fitted but to get it to function it is necessary for a mechanical advancer to be retrofitted as well. I haven't been able to find any specific information on that mod so I'm at a loss there.

The best (and easiest) solution is still a used one I think.

It would be interesting to be able to find something else that would work at least from the point of view of an intellectual exercise if nothing else.

I appreciate your interest and assistance.

cheers,
spyug

 

[Guest]

I'm curious as to why it wouldn't work.

Essentially all you are doing is supplying power, a signal, and getting an output.

The only problem i can think of is the differences as in: when it will advance, dwell times...



http://cgi.ebay.ca/SUZUKI-GS550ES-G...rcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item564388cdb8


http://cgi.ebay.ca/85-SUZUKI-GS550E...rcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f08f26cd4

And then there is all out Dyna 2000

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Dynatek-2000-CDI...ors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a5d1eb964

 

[spyug]

Being an electronic dweeb, I wouldn't know why another box won't work other than what you have suggested.

There also seems to be a huge competition for the used boxes when they come up and there is another member here who seems to be buying them all up as they appear on the market so they are really hard to come by it seems.

As far as the Dyna ignitions the S models and the 2000s only work for 79 through 81 models as their website and advertising indicate. I will contact Dynatek to confirm. Being pricey however, I would be looking at this as a last resort.

Boy this really bites and another reason to love the older bikes with points ignitions.

I'll let you know what I hear from Dynatek.

cheers,
Andy

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

He has both Jeep,

A 550 with the starter and ignitor issue and the 750 with the usual cleanup and tuning to do.


I need to check some wiring diagrams to be sure but I believe that looking and the connections from your old ignitor and then compare them to any suzuki 4 cylinder ignitor from your year or earlier.

you could find the wiring diagram for the new ignitor and compare it to yours.

If It matches.

As in, they both have:

Non mechanical advance.

Wires For:

Power in
Ground
signal generator in
signal generator in
Coil 1
Coil 2


You could splice the wires from yours to those if the connector isn't a direct fit.

It would be best to get one from one that matches the way yours is set up.

I'll see what I can match up.

If anyone has any ideas?



Just did some research

So far: from the diagram from an 83 550es "which is all i have".

Ground is black with white stripe.
Power is Orange and white stripe
Negative for Coil for 1 and 4 is White
Negative for Coil for 2 and 3 is Black with yellow stripe
Signal generator Left Brown
Signal generator middle B/W
Signal generator Right Green White.

Drawing and manual suggests that it is a non mechanical advance.



If you just want it to run. It would with the one from my 400 there wouldn't be any advance but it would run

Advance on that 550 is electronic.

 

[baz666]

Thanks again for the kind words but its cold comfort if I can't locate another igniter. I've been researching for the last couple of days and it seems that nothing short of an original Zuk box for an 83 550 will work. There doesn't seem to be any interchangeability and it doesn't seem that there are any after market alternatives.

I'm wishing now that the starter motor or clutch had been buggered as those would have been easier to fix.

Well the hunt begins and in the meanwhile I guess I'll concentrate on the 750 tuneup and finishing off the Kat project.

Cheers all,
Spyug

I can sympathize, what with my problems with the GS750ES. But there might be hope. I know a guy up in Mono Mills, about equal distance from Hamilton or from my place, here in the west end of Toronto. His name is John Haney and he has a small parts and repair biz called The Bikeyard. It's not enough to just check his website or call him and ask for a certain part. John's a bit eccentric and hoards certain parts he will only sell to people he deems 'worthy'. Weird, I know, but there you have it. Anyway, I've become pretty friendly with him and he's helped me out with several different old UJMs I've owned, sometimes digging out a rare part, looking at it in wonder and muttering: "Where the hell did that come from... hm... I guess you can have it for..." and then give me a stupidly low price. Speaking of igniters, he found me one for a fairly rare 83 Yam XJ900R and sold it to me for $50.
So, what I think we should do is meet up at The Bikeyard sometime soon and I'll introduce you to John. Now, the thing is, you can't just dive right in and say, "I want this part etc." I've seen other customers make this mistake and he just clams up. "Nope, don't have it. Sorry." and refuses to look through his huge haphazard collection of boxes of old UJM parts. I've gotten to the point where he actually allows me to rummage around myself, a rare and hard earned privilege but I must always first gauge his mood before just going through stuff and make sure he says the magic words; "Why don't you just have a look around."
I know this all sounds very strange but it's worked for me in the past many times. Perfect seat for a 1980 CB750F, $120. Perfect tank for a 1974 CB360T, $150.
So drop me a line and let's set up a time and date and we'll head up there, bring him a coffee, let him have a smoke and ramble on a while then get down to business. It's not something he'll do over the phone, simply saying: "Well, uh... why don't ya come up here and we'll have a look..." then mutter on about some old bike he once owned or fixed or rode.

I guess John's made his coin, has a great spread out there and the business is a way to stay in touch with the old bikes he loves. Underneath the gruff exterior, he's a good guy, a real soft touch.
Or if you like, give me a phone call and we'll arrange a visit up there.
baz
416-606-4135