New Innovate logging hardware

[gearhead13]

I wanted to add some stuff to at least log rpm to make my A/F readings make more sense, so I bought an SSI-4 (simple sensor interface (4)) and found the new product PL-1 (pocket logger).
I can add up to three other sensors besides RPM, not sure what to add maybe speed and engine temp maybe.
The PL-1 accepts an SD card (included) and has room to record something like 500 hours of data. I just put in the card, start the bike, press record and go for a ride. Works great.
I hate wiring, was a real pain. They are made for cars so the wires are real long and some would be very hard to shorten
Also wired in a dedicated relay with fuse to power the setup, and made a mounting area out of aluminum riveted in place.
Worried about power draw from it. I was told that the O2 sensor and gauge use 3A or 36 Watt. I am still seeing 14v+ on the road speed.

 

[salty_monk]

I wouldn't worry about that power draw... similar to my heated vest & I've done miles wearing that.

Try not to get stuck in traffic!

 

[posplayr]

The Logworks software is one of the better elements of the Innovate products. I found the most important parameters are AFR and RPM. Speed is nice as well.

I have the LMA-3 which provides acceleration, vacume and temperatures but those beyond being mildly amusing are not nearly as useful as the three above.

Going up on a long uphill with fixed throttle positions (1/4,1/2,3/4, and WOT) allowed everything to stabilize and reading the AFR at various RPM's worked best for me.

 

[gearhead13]

Its not a ton of power draw althought the 3A I was quoted by the tech guy was only for the LC-1 and DB gauge. But this is also a 1327 with almost 200 psi compression and all this stuff powers up when I turn the key I might have to wire up a switch to turn them off for starting.
I have only been out once for a data session, but the A/F dips below 10-1 under full throttle.
I have 140 main jets in it now, according to this thread:
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=164565&highlight=afr+info
Going down to a 130 main would only lean me out to maybe 11-1, although that info is for CV carbs, versus my RS carbs is a rule of thumb I am using. Peak power is made with 12 or 13-1. I will see what difference it makes after the change and another ride.

 

[tkent02]

I need this stuff for tuning my Jeep, with it's new 4.8 stroker engine. Would you guys recommend this particular unit?

 

[gearhead13]

I need this stuff for tuning my Jeep, with it's new 4.8 stroker engine. Would you guys recommend this particular unit?

I would. Is it carbureted? if you have dual exhaust you might want one in each pipe. Air pumps and cats mess up the readings.
Would be much easier to install in a car/truck IMO

 

[jimb12]

Its not a ton of power draw althought the 3A I was quoted by the tech guy was only for the LC-1 and DB gauge. But this is also a 1327 with almost 200 psi compression and all this stuff powers up when I turn the key I might have to wire up a switch to turn them off for starting.

Don't do that, the oxygen sensor needs to be heated when the engine is running.

As far as your 10:1 a/f, is that on the main jet or while the accelerator pump is still working?

 

[gearhead13]

Don't do that, the oxygen sensor needs to be heated when the engine is running.

As far as your 10:1 a/f, is that on the main jet or while the accelerator pump is still working?

I disabled the pump for the testing.

 

[coombehouse]

I would think you would need to add a throttle position sensor but I can't see it would be easy on RS38 carbs. A map sensor would be easy to fit but you probably won't get enough resolution to get meaningful data.
Nick

 

[salty_monk]

I think Posplayr actually marked his throttle physically top end to achieve that...

 

[posplayr]

I think Posplayr actually marked his throttle physically top end to achieve that...

just like if you were doing a plug chop. The key is to get steady readings. It is hard to do that under variable throttle settings or wild acceleration.

Tape and a marker is all you need.

 

[coombehouse]

I think Posplayr actually marked his throttle physically top end to achieve that...

I guess this OK but its not very accurate. Seems a pity to go to all the trouble of fitting sensors for logging & not at least try to mount what is probably one of the most important sensors. It can be done with some tricky machining. I was about to attempt it but decided to go EFI instead. TBH logging a carb motor could prove to be quite a frustrating exercise due to the limited adjustment on the RS38's. Also bear in mind the comparison is to an AFR which is a best guess & not neccesarily the best for the motor.
Nick

 

[coombehouse]

just like if you were doing a plug chop. The key is to get steady readings. It is hard to do that under variable throttle settings or wild acceleration.

Tape and a marker is all you need.

Surely the whole point is we are talking data logging here not looking at a gauge while driving down the street. The wideband lambda & software should cope with the varying speed etc & provide the data.
Regarding plug chops I have never had much joy on anything other than a 2 stroke & flat in 3rd or 4th gear on the street is around 130mph. In 5th I am banging off the limiter at 150. I need all my concentration just to avoid the traffic.
Nick

 

[gearhead13]

I seem to remember seeing a tps made to fit RS carbs, cant remember where I saw it I know they make them for the Keihin FCR carbs.

 

[posplayr]

Surely the whole point is we are talking data logging here not looking at a gauge while driving down the street. The wideband lambda & software should cope with the varying speed etc & provide the data.
Regarding plug chops I have never had much joy on anything other than a 2 stroke & flat in 3rd or 4th gear on the street is around 130mph. In 5th I am banging off the limiter at 150. I need all my concentration just to avoid the traffic.
Nick

Yes of course the data is being recorded and the WBO2 will follow the instantaneous AFR, however the instantaneous AFR does not stabilize so you can actually determine what it is your jetting did. I don't have any data readily available to post at the moment, but stabilizing the engine at a constant throttle settings is the key.

A line on tape is more than adequate because as mentioned the AFR is changing so much to start with (it is hard to get better than a +/- AFR 0.5. On a Dyno it would be better. Regardless you don't have the carburetor adjustment to make up for any difference there might be for say misinterpreting a 55% throttle setting from a 50% setting.

I would also dare say you don't need precise instrumentation to figure out where idle or WOT is. :-\\\

Even if you look at an EFI bike, the AFR changes quite a bit under acceleration.

 

[coombehouse]

Oh yes I get what you are saying however I would have problems remembering at what throttle position I was when looking at the logged data later. I still think a tps is preferable & hey if you buy an Ignitech programmable ignition you can have a 3d ignition curve. Don't quite know what benefit it would be but its something to play with!!
Nick

 

[posplayr]

Oh yes I get what you are saying however I would have problems remembering at what throttle position I was when looking at the logged data later. I still think a tps is preferable & hey if you buy an Ignitech programmable ignition you can have a 3d ignition curve. Don't quite know what benefit it would be but its something to play with!!
Nick

I measured RPM and Speed and set up a test sequence as shown below

1st gear 1/4 - 1/2 - 3/4- WOT
2nd gear 1/4 - 1/2 - 3/4 - WOT
3rd gear 1/4 - 1/2 - 3/4 - WOT
4th gear 1/4 - 1/2 -3/4 - WOT

I would pause about 15 seconds on each setting (or until the RPM stabilized) and close the throttle to shift up making that transition very clear. At WOT you run beyond red-line even on a steep hill.

If you remember that you are going to do 4 settings per gear and go through the sequence it is quite easy to see AFR and deduce what the throttle condition was.

I have a nice long steep (6% grade) hill close by, if you don't then a Dyno would be better.

 

[trippivot]

cool thread and links ... AFR and EGT tuning. now on my list of things to get .

 

[gearhead13]

I am wondering about how engine temp affects readings. If it is cold will the readings be richer or leaner than if it is fully warmed up
And oil temp is an indicator of engine temp, but I would imagine the oil could be cold and the actual aluminum head could be hot. Maybe a temp probe should be a sensor to add. Anyone know what kind of sensor would work well to measure head temp?
Going from a 140 to 130 main has raised my WOT A/F about 1.5-2.0. I am seeing 10.x from 5 krpm up to 7krpm then 12.x from 7-9.

 

[Guest]

Cylinder Head Temp

Cylinder Head Temp

I am wondering about how engine temp affects readings. If it is cold will the readings be richer or leaner than if it is fully warmed up
And oil temp is an indicator of engine temp, but I would imagine the oil could be cold and the actual aluminum head could be hot. Maybe a temp probe should be a sensor to add. Anyone know what kind of sensor would work well to measure head temp?
Going from a 140 to 130 main has raised my WOT A/F about 1.5-2.0. I am seeing 10.x from 5 krpm up to 7krpm then 12.x from 7-9.

In my old kart racing days.Running a single cyl. 2 stroke.We had a sensor that went between the sparkplug and head.Which is what we'd get a CHT from.On a 4 cyl im not sure what you could do.That combined with an EGT is what we'd use for setting the carb up on the track.We used Digitron gages for CHT,RPM,EGT and RPM.
Actually thinking about using Digitron with egt and rpm for my landspeedbike,combined with afr datalogging to help me get carbs set for a given air density reading. Rich