new shocks - does this look ok to you?

[Normk]

dowsy's post was much more concise then mine..

More detail would be interesting as I am likely not the only one who wonders about the cause of the rubber bushing damage. Thanks also for re-posting the reasoning as I simply wondered about the motivation and was not questioning the validity of such. I'd also be going with a bit shorter rear shocks if the price were attractive, especially given my short inseam.

Lowering the rear, of course, will tend to increase the straight line/high speed stability so will be interested as to whether you can discern any difference in steering/stability effect other than that which would be attributed to the improved shock absorber effect. We often combine the rear suspension spring effect with that of the shock absorber although the two are separate and mutually affective.

I don't recall any contact with this brand of shocks but wonder if they are "rebuilt/remanufactured" and that the mounting eye end was overlooked for bushing replacement during the process?

Sure, I can snap a few more pictures. I'll use a camera instead of the phone and see how that comes out. Thanks for the advice.

Again, the reason I went with non-standard length is just price. Since they were on closeout, I was able to pick them up with chrome springs for about 160 iirc.
Though I'd prefer to keep everything stock at 13", I expect I'll still feel a better ride overall with these nice 12" shocks (rebuildable, tuneable) compared to the 30yr old stocks (currently at 12.75").

 

[lurch12_2000]

.... I'd also be going with a bit shorter rear shocks if the price were attractive, especially given my short inseam.

Lowering the rear, of course, will tend to increase the straight line/high speed stability so will be interested as to whether you can discern any difference in steering/stability effect other than that which would be attributed to the improved shock absorber effect. We often combine the rear suspension spring effect with that of the shock absorber although the two are separate and mutually affective.

A bit of a hijack on the original thread, but that looks to being handled by the buyer at this point....
but why would you say a shorter rear shock would increase straightline/high speed stability?
Dropping the rear an inch without any other changes up front may in fact affect it negatively. Agreed a new shock and spring will improve things over the old tired stockers but I'm curious of your rationale. If it's sprung correctly the longer spring will be just as stable in my mind.
Other things that I mentioned earlier would concern me....shorter shocks means a more difficult time to leverage on the centerstand if you still have one, and cornering clearance would be less if you've made no other mods.
I went the other way with a longer 13.25" shock and for the initial test ride (short for now during the winter) see it as an improvement. Not just because of comparing a good set of shocks with old tired originals.
Now I don't have an issue with seat/inseam height so a longer shock doesn't bother me....so I would understand that as a reason for shorter.

 

[Agemax]

IMO its faulty goods, i would demand a refund. you have rights to do so

 

[lurch12_2000]

I purchased a set of new shocks to suit my GS 850G from
An Australian EBay company called Techshox
Good quality for only $60 a pair
They are great , check them out , plenty of good reviews
Hope this helps anybody looking for new shocks to suit their GS

I couldn't find what you're referring to on Ebay....do you have a link?

Is that with springs? Were they actually new? List any reviews? I know I've used those cheap $70-80 set of shocks from Mexico on my old GS1100G and wouldn't buy them again, cheap or not.

 

[GateKeeper]

I found this

http://myworld.ebay.com.au/tecshox/

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/tecshox/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686

hope it helps

 

[downsy]

Thanks , yes that is the Link,I purchased a set of full chrome with springs and rubber bushes , they also come in black, fit perfectly and have had them on the bike for approx 6 months and have definitely improved the ride quality. Plenty of good reviews with nothing negative as yet and for the money they are extremely good value if like me you are not made of money !

 

[downsy]

Oh and yes they are definitely new !

 

[lurch12_2000]

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/tecshox/m...&_trksid=p3686

Doesn't look like they ship outside of Australia, and if they did the shipping might be pretty steep. Which one listed did you match up for your 850G at 13" eyelet to eyelet?

 

[salty_monk]

I recommended these shocks... It's not 100% ideal but the price was staggering.

I have run Koni's on a 1000G that were 12.5". Stock shocks on the G's actually measure about 12.7" if you take one off & measure it.

12" is a little shorter but you can drop the forks in the triples a little if you feel any effect on the steering. (shorter rear shocks will slow steering, how much is hard to tell without trying, dropping the triples a little will compensate).

Corner clearance will be less but unless you are regularly dragging pegs the improved valving & bump control of the Ikons plus the nice new non sagging springs will most likely more than make up for the difference.

Agemax - read the whole thread, Jeff has already offered a refund!

You can buy stock Suzuki bushings new from the dealer - Basscliff posted about it I believe as he wanted to replace the bushings in his MDI shocks. Not very expensive either & will likely fit. Also a small part such as 1 bushing should be relatively cheap to get direct from source in OZ or you could contact works performance/racetech to see if they have a bushing that will fit.

 

[downsy]

Tecshox had them listed on eBay as shocks for GS 850G
Suggest you do a search on eBay Australia for shocks for whatever model you need them for or contact Keith via email Tec-Au@hotmail.com
Hope this helps

 

[downsy]

I am sure they will ship anywhere in the world , just ask them for a shipping quote, I can see from the feedback that the have shipped them to the Uk

 

[Normk]

Lowering the rear will increase the front fork rake, adding more caster to the front wheel increasing the amount of lift per degree of front wheel turn. That has the effect of making the front wheel more difficult to turn and increasing the centering effect of the steering. This was the basis of the old "extended forks" which were popular on the chopper days as it made them bikes more stable at higher speeds but, of course, this carried on into the rediculous where front fork tube flex more than made up for the increase in straight line stabilty. Only one of the reasons one doesn't see extended forks on Isle of Mann.

Dropping the front forks in the triple tree will decrease rake, make turning more rapid and provide less centering effect, which is the reverse of dropping the front. For more discussion on this subject and its effects a dual sport group such as DSN_KLR650 will have more converage as this is a common practice for short legged dual sport riders wishing to get a bit more foot down, especially when working bad trails with camping loads.

Dropping both ends shortens wheel base which also quickens steering response and somewhat decreases straight line stability. I have played with dropping both ends separately and dropping both on quite a few bikes and generally have not noticed any marked effect on bikes which were inherently stable. Always wishing to gather more data thoughm which was the reason for the question about riding impression.

I learned long ago that one cannot connect technical/engineering knowledge with perception as some people who literally cannot put air in their own tires can notice a slight difference in suspension performance. There is simply no correlation between a great artist and one who can weave the canvas material.

Hope that answered the question. If interested, try slipping the fork tubes upward in the triple tree (lowering the front end) and see if you can notice the difference. Changing rear has a similar but opposite effect. If you want to experience a radically lowered rear on your bike, PM and I'll give you my ex-wife's address. Put her on the back and you'll see what the bike feels like with the rear bottomed. Just don't try to get across any truck scales.

A bit of a hijack on the original thread, but that looks to being handled by the buyer at this point....
but why would you say a shorter rear shock would increase straightline/high speed stability?
Dropping the rear an inch without any other changes up front may in fact affect it negatively. Agreed a new shock and spring will improve things over the old tired stockers but I'm curious of your rationale. If it's sprung correctly the longer spring will be just as stable in my mind.
Other things that I mentioned earlier would concern me....shorter shocks means a more difficult time to leverage on the centerstand if you still have one, and cornering clearance would be less if you've made no other mods.
I went the other way with a longer 13.25" shock and for the initial test ride (short for now during the winter) see it as an improvement. Not just because of comparing a good set of shocks with old tired originals.
Now I don't have an issue with seat/inseam height so a longer shock doesn't bother me....so I would understand that as a reason for shorter.

 

[lurch12_2000]

Lowering the rear will increase the front fork rake, adding more caster to the front wheel increasing the amount of lift per degree of front wheel turn. That has the effect of making the front wheel more difficult to turn and increasing the centering effect of the steering. This was the basis of the old "extended forks" which were popular on the chopper days as it made them bikes more stable at higher speeds but, of course, this carried on into the rediculous where front fork tube flex more than made up for the increase in straight line stabilty. Only one of the reasons one doesn't see extended forks on Isle of Mann.

Dropping the front forks in the triple tree will decrease rake, make turning more rapid and provide less centering effect, which is the reverse of dropping the front. For more discussion on this subject and its effects a dual sport group such as DSN_KLR650 will have more converage as this is a common practice for short legged dual sport riders wishing to get a bit more foot down, especially when working bad trails with camping loads.

Dropping both ends shortens wheel base which also quickens steering response and somewhat decreases straight line stability. I have played with dropping both ends separately and dropping both on quite a few bikes and generally have not noticed any marked effect on bikes which were inherently stable. Always wishing to gather more data thoughm which was the reason for the question about riding impression.

I learned long ago that one cannot connect technical/engineering knowledge with perception as some people who literally cannot put air in their own tires can notice a slight difference in suspension performance. There is simply no correlation between a great artist and one who can weave the canvas material.

Hope that answered the question. If interested, try slipping the fork tubes upward in the triple tree (lowering the front end) and see if you can notice the difference. Changing rear has a similar but opposite effect. If you want to experience a radically lowered rear on your bike, PM and I'll give you my ex-wife's address. Put her on the back and you'll see what the bike feels like with the rear bottomed. Just don't try to get across any truck scales.

Well, you did provide a lenthy explanation, but I would disagree. I agree that extending the front end(or just dropping the rear end) will make a bike more sluggish to turn, it also tends to shift the weight rearward which in my experience at higher speed lightens the front end making it vague and unstable at higher speeds. Not much technical jargon to back my theory up other than experience with riding various "choppers" in my youth...just that I'll take my 1000G with stock length or slightly longer shocks with my slightly forward leaning h-bars over shorter shocks at high speed anyday and feel more planted and stable at >100mph!
A lot of the noticed stability improvement either way is due to the usefulness of the new shocks anyhow.
Really, bottom line is that just going with a 1" lower shock in of itself would not be an improvment on these GS bikes unless you're short legged, IMO....but I understand the attraction of a good shock at a great price. Now back to the thread...although I think the buyer and seller can handle things from here on...sorry for my digression.

 

[lurch12_2000]

I am sure they will ship anywhere in the world , just ask them for a shipping quote, I can see from the feedback that the have shipped them to the Uk

I'm all set now with my new Showa 13.25" shocks, but I'll keep this useful info for future reference....thanks.

 

[shwaz]

more photos

more photos

first of all, thanks everyone for comments and thoughts, even off-topic ones. this has been very interesting to read and i'm learning more every post. glad i was able to start such a lively discussion! keep it coming.


here are some more photos as promised. really there's just the one messed up bushing as you'll see below (multiple pictures of it below, different angles but all the same eye).
i'll try looking into replacement bushings from suzuki but i'm not sure if that's applicable on these as they seem to be mold-injected(?). would i cut/dig out the existing rubber and then put a replacement bushing in?

anyway, here are the close ups:

these are fine

same here, not pristine but certainly ok

not so much

 

[Agemax]

you could press one out and take it to a local automotive parts centre, see if they can match one up. then press them in on a hydraulic press,
or press one out, measure the i/d and o/d and see if you can find them online

 

[JEEPRUSTY]

Mush ado about nothing.
Strap it on and go.

If you do opt to change one bushing at a shop then you will have to change both to get the things equal.

added expense and bother

You could contact the distributor and complain in hopes of getting a new set from them directly.

 

[shwaz]

Mush ado about nothing.
Strap it on and go.

If you do opt to change one bushing at a shop then you will have to change both to get the things equal.

added expense and bother

Heheh. You said strap on

Noted, thanks. That's my current intent.

 

[salty_monk]

If it was me I would just fit them.... As I said earlier, my Works shocks don't have any rubber on one side as standard anyway & the MDI shocks have an awful bushing that many have used for a year or more without problem.

You would most likely have to cut it out & press a new one in.

Are the Holes in those bushes the right size for the bolts/pegs? You may find you need an insert to go inside the hole to reduce it's size (that's what Progressive does as stock).

Dan

 

[Normk]

+1 to Rusty's recommendation.

Here's the issue as I see it:

The damage to the rubber bushing seems to be mostly cosmetic and so not affecting a significant depth of the bushing between insert and shock "eye". It thus appears that the remaining rubber bushing is sufficient for the purpose.

Replacing this bushing is far more of a problem than is likely appreciated.

Anyone who has replaced compressed cylinderical rubber bushings will appreciate that they are under a high degree of compression as installed. Forcing a new bushing into place requires inner and outer dies to confine and channel the bushing into place, combined with significant pressing effort. I doubt that these bushings could be seated with, for example an 8 inch shop vise but rather would require a hydraulic press, even if you had the dies.

Attempting to push the bushing into place and then following up with the inner insert tube will result in the tube cutting into the rubber bushing and attempting to displace the bushing axially. Attempting to push the bushing into the space while inner tube is in place will be fruitless because the bushing will simply compress and deform.

Pressing these assemblies into place requires that the bushing be confined both internally and externally while forcing the bushing into place. The problem is exacerbated by the need to secure the shock eye and inner tube from axial movement.

The alternatives of inserting the bushing, followed by installing the inner tube, or installing tube and bushing together into the shock eye present similar problems. Block the end of the rubber bushing to keep it from beng pushed (axially) from the shock eye will simply result in the rubber bulging further into the path of the inner sleeve, exascerbating the problem.

Inspection of the shock will confirm that the bushing was not molded in place due to the compression present in the rubber although it is possible that manufacturing processes developed later than those of which I am aware may have developed a rubber material which will expand after injection.

IME, removing the rubber bushing will create greater difficulties as it will be difficult to install a bushing which is of sufficient density. Other than cosmetics, there would seem to be nothing to gain even if the rubber could be replaced.

Having worked in a Third World country, I am well aware of the problem of attempting to replace suspension rubber parts. We usually resorted to machining and sleeving a control arm bushing to size in order to use another bushing than the one specified. It is not fun to machine the inner or outer sleeve of an assembled rubber cored bushing because of the deflection of the sleeve under machining.

"Pretty it up" with some product if that seems to be desireable and run the shocks is my recommendation.

If the rubber bushing of an otherwise good shock of this mounting configuration were needing replacement, I would be looking to machining nylon or other media to replace both rubber bushing and inner sleeve. A slip fit thinner sleeve or step stud/step bolt would adjust end-wise compression.