Next Problem!!!

[Boozy Creek Beast]

Well I will start with some good news by saying that my 1166 kit engine knock due to my inproper piston installation has been corrected. I checked the pistions and valves for damage and other than a very slight mark on both there seams to be know long term damage. I have not been able to fire it up yet due to the "Next Problem".

As I was re-installing my cams I had 2 of the Cam bolts strip out. Luckly for me they were not both on the same location or on the same cam. I used blue lock tight on the remaining 3 bolt and was wondering, since I am not going to race it and just want to use it for casual riding with a few afternoons of burning up the highway, could I get away with not taking it all apart again to add helio coils for the repair. I am afraid that if I take it apart again I will just come across another issue as I put it back together. With only 6 to 8 in. pounds to tighten the bolts and 11 others that have were properly installed how much trouble could it cause.

The Beast

 

[hungryman]

You cannot run it in this condition. It will break for sure and leave you with a big mess.

If you are concerned about stripping out the remaing bolts on reassembly - helicoil them all.

What torque wrench are you using? Is it a 3/8 or 1/4 drive? The 1/2 ones don't measure small torques accurately.

 

[Boozy Creek Beast]

I was afraid you were going to say that. I have a snap on 1/4 in drive torque wrench that is less than 6 months old. I am afraid to have to helio coil the pad locations due to a bad helio coil experiance that I had before. Do you have any advice?

The Beast

 

[hungryman]

Remember that you are threading into soft aluminum. Never exceed the torque limits. Since you are using a 1/4 drive it should be accurate at low torues settings. Typically they run in inch/pounds so you ahve to multiply the ft/lb setting by 12.

Sounds like you ran into a bit of bad luck. If the stripped ones are under the backbone you will probably have to remove the head again.

If not, maybe you can just helicoil the bad ones and re-tap the others to ensure they are clean of debris that can cause problems. This is an old trick I've used from long ago building auto motors. I always run a tap through any bolt holes that will be torqued later. It cleans them up and gives a more reliable reading.

Good luck.

Oh, almost forgot. If you put a very small amount of grease on the tap it will trap any garbage and keep it from falling back into your clean motor.

 

[Boozy Creek Beast]

Thanks I will try your advice when I start the work.

The Beast

 

[BadBillyB]

If you were using an inch lb. torque wrench and the proper torque value and they stripped out on you, theres a good chance there was oil down in the threaded hole. Oil in the hole will cause the threads to be pushed out..........BadBillyB

 

[2Fast4U]

just put a slightly larger bolt in the hole and not mess the heil coils

 

[hungryman]

If you were using an inch lb. torque wrench and the proper torque value and they stripped out on you, theres a good chance there was oil down in the threaded hole. Oil in the hole will cause the threads to be pushed out..........BadBillyB

Good point, especially if the bolt starts tightening before it seats. Clean those threads, it's a good practice to get into.

 

[hungryman]

just put a slightly larger bolt in the hole and not mess the heil coils

Either way you have to drill and tap the new hole. A helicoil is stronger, and the cap may need to be drilled if you go to a larger bolt. It may be an option however.

 

[rosco15]

I put a helicoil in one of my heads when it was installed. Used a 90 deg. drill adapter and a wrench to turn the tap. Also had a shop vac on hand to vacume up the aluminum bits as I went. I would heli-coil it and not run it without that bolt. Also I've done 7lbs, but never 8. Don't know if that makes much of a difference.

 

[minutemen]

Also before tightening down the cam caps I back the adjuster screws out all the way so the cam cap bolts don't have to compress the valve springs. I used to strip at least one out every time I removed the cams but since doing this way I haven't stripped any.Tony

 

[Jethro]

I put a helicoil in one of my heads when it was installed. Used a 90 deg. drill adapter and a wrench to turn the tap. Also had a shop vac on hand to vacume up the aluminum bits as I went. I would heli-coil it and not run it without that bolt. Also I've done 7lbs, but never 8. Don't know if that makes much of a difference.

The shop vac trick has worked for me as well.

I stress what others have said Greg, you must not run the bike without those bolts. If you do, can I buy your 1166 block and pistons? I won't want the head though...8-[

 

[hungryman]

Also before tightening down the cam caps I back the adjuster screws out all the way so the cam cap bolts don't have to compress the valve springs. I used to strip at least one out every time I removed the cams but since doing this way I haven't stripped any.Tony

Another good point that I forgot about. Are you taking notes? :-D

 

[Jethro]

Another good point that I forgot about. Are you taking notes? :-D

I know I am. I never thought of doing that when I took my cams out last.

 

[morthrane]

You might want to look at using a Timesert rather than a helicoil. Its a bushing insert rather than a wire coil.

On a different note, is it wise to use loctite on something as torque senitive as a cam cap bolt? I know that the use of liquids of any kind on a bolt can change the effective torque wrench reading... but to what degree?

 

[Boozy Creek Beast]

I purchased the helio coils last night and will be taking the engine apart again on sunday. I plan to complete this job on Sunday unless I hit another snag. How about dropping the oil pan and flushing the engine. With as much work as I have done I would really like to make sure that I didn't drop something or something fell in when I was not looking. I would also like to make sure that any possible metal shaveings were flushed out before I try to start her up. What should I use a an engine flush if you consider this a good idea.

The Beast

 

[hungryman]

I'm not sure what you've done so far that would generate metal shavings.

If you are careful, you can collect all the shavings on this particular job by using a shop vac and stuffing rags into oil return passages to keep them up top.

 

[Boozy Creek Beast]

I understand that. But you are talking to a guy that just put his pistons in backwards. I may not have had any problems but with my luck and since I will have it apart again why take the chance.

The Beast

 

[hungryman]

Well, you need a slight amount of oil on the cylinders before you fire it up, so make sure of that, and the piston pins should have some moly on them along with the cam lobes and rocker contact points.

If you feel like pouring a small amount of kerosine down the oil drain holes in the head it probably woun't hurt it. I wouldn't use gasoline.

In general though, if you have taken care when building it (clean hands, rags, try to avoid paper towels, etc) you should be ok.

 

[Boozy Creek Beast]

Sounds good. I have been very careful during the work so I will skip the flushing. Just wanted to see if it was a good idea or could it cause more problems.

The Beast