No brake light

[littleroot]

if those connectors come apart I would take each one apart give it a good clean, get some dielectric grease and put that on as well, get a bulb for the turn signal that burned out, start the bike, and try the brakes and see if the lights work as they should.

also trace each wire make sure it's not pinched, or stripped and possibly causing a ground

electrical gremlins are one of the worse to diagnose.....

I do have some electric connection cleaner I bought for music equipment "pots" I could use. One of the things I did was hold down both brake levers and wiggle wires, fore and aft, and never even saw a flicker.

I had not thought about running the bike. I did all my tests with just the key turned on because that is always how I tested turn and brake lights on my GS1100GL. Hmmm. The garage is closed for the night as it was getting too cold out there, wife is asleep and I need to get to bed soon myself.

Thanks again for staying with me and the great advice. Until tomorrow night.

 

[Redman]

Bob,
First, let me say THanks for representing the GSR so well with TomMLC.

1980 GS1100E brake lights not working. Sigh. Where to start?

......

You trying to troubleshoot this with your eyeballs..? Or with a volt meter..?
A meter or test probe light would tell you what you need to know a lot faster.

...I had not thought about running the bike. I did all my tests with just the key turned on because that is always how I tested turn and brake lights on my GS1100GL.....

That would not make any differernce other than maybe operate at 13.point something rather than 12.something.
Bike does run, right?
Maybe that tail light modulator needs some power connection that is missing.

In all this, no one asked, and you havent said if the tail light is working? ?



E tail light pretty much same a GL tail light.

THe lowerer bulb is the tag light. You say that comes on (ignition swtich in ON I presume). Keep in mind that the tag light is powered by a different wire than the tail (& the brake) light, but probably uses the same ground connection.
If tail light is working then the tail/brake light ground must be good.
If neither the tail nor the brake light is working, then the ground (blk/wht) is a suspect.

.

 

[littleroot]

You trying to troubleshoot this with your eyeballs..? Or with a volt meter..?

A meter or test probe light would tell you what you need to knw a lot faster.

E tail light pretty much same a GL tail light.

THe lowerer bulb is the tag light. You say that comes on (ignition swtich in ON I presume). Keep in mind that the tag light is powered by a different wire than the brake light, but probably uses the same ground connection.
See if your tail light ground wire (blk/wht) is connected.

.

In one of the poor videos I did explain I used a voltmeter and what the voltage was. Basically the connector to the brake light reads 9 volts on the center pin to ground and 5.8 volts on the far side pin to ground. This is without the brake lever(s) applied. Puzzling part is when lever(s) are applied there was no difference.

As for two bulbs and GL similarities yep I figured that out. As for wires, you can see in the second video, where I found the Priority Plus, it is a bit of a mystery back there I will have to unravel. Thanks for the reply

 

[Redman]

In one of the poor videos I did explain I used a voltmeter and what the voltage was. Basically the connector to the brake light reads 9 volts on the center pin to ground and 5.8 volts on the far side pin to ground. This is without the brake lever(s) applied. Puzzling part is when lever(s) are applied there was no difference. ...

I will admitt to not watching vidios. (but will)


>>later note: have just watched vidio.
Seems that there are a couple things I could explain to you.
Let me try to find a schematic (in case is diferent from 1100G that I know).

But, in mean time, ...
that "black wire" is it really black with white stripe?
And the "red" wire, that really brown?

.

 

[littleroot]

I will admitt to not watching vidios. (but will)

Redman, Soirry to make you do that as you didn't miss anything by not watching the poor videos!

Here is an update: I've pulled the rear panel completely off to get ready to replace the broken left rear turn signal. I think I am going to go ahead and rip out the Priority Plus after all because it is just going to be another point of failure.

 

[Redman]

Leave connector connected so the bulb is in the circuit. Since you have the modulator, which I assume is electronic. Electronics can leak a little bit of current, so leave the bulb in the circuit to "load down" that so the meter measures the voltage at the bulb. You said you were measuring voltage with the conenctor disconnected. Even though the modulator may be off, it may leak a little bit of current and if only thing on the circuit is your meter it may read several volts, but if had the bulb in the circuit it will be about no volts. (hard to explain without long explanation, I think this point was like 3 full lectures in electrical engineering classes)).
Leave conector connected. Can get meter probe into the connector along next to the wire. FOr each test, first try on bike side of the connector, then try on light side of the connector, should be the same, if not then is a problem in the connector.

Did find a 1100E schematic.
Yep: blk/wht is ground, brown is tail light, white is brake light, all in one connnector.

I think I saw just a hint of a white stripe in one place on the black wire in your vidio, so, yah, that is a ground wire.
Brown (you called "red") wire is for Tail Light (which dont think you specifiacly siad is working or not, but I will assume it is working since you said problem is brake light).
White wire is the Brake light.

What you were saying about touching red to white and touching black to white (or whatever) didnt make any sence.

Leave connector connected, with bulb in fixture, and Lets step through this:
Put meter- probe into the blk/wht wire connector. Put meter+ into the Brown wire connector. SHould have the 12+ volts (assuming tail light works) and all you have done is verifyed that know how to use a meter.
If dont (and tail light doesnt work), lets see if problem is the blk/wht wire by try moving the meter- probe from the blk/wht wire and putting it on some ground point or battery-. If measure 12+ then (but did not before) then problem is your blk/wht wire has lost its ground somewhere.

If all above good, then lets move onto the brake light.
Meter- probe on blk/wht connector. Put meter+ on the white wire connector. DOnt hit Hit brake lever (either) yet, should have about no volts. Hit brake lever(either), should have 12+. If dont, well, problem is in bike harness wiring (or the modulator). If do, try other side of connector, if good on other side of connector, then problem is in brake light side of the wiring.

Tell us more what you find.

.

 

[littleroot]

I think I found the problem after removing the Priority Plus modulator. Thank gosh for having a second bike so I can prove this:

On the good bike and without the brake lever squeezed, with the volt meter in the bulb socket there is 9v on the running light pin and zero volts on the brake light pin. That is normal for the running light filament. When I apply the brake there is 9v on the brake light pin, which lights the second filament and the brake works. Bingo. Now I understand how it is supposed to work.

That was the Aha moment because as I wrote earlier and in the video on the bad bike there is 9v on the running light lead and 5.8 volts on the brake light lead (should be zero volts) and then no change whatsoever when I press the brake lever.

So I think there is a short somewhere up towards the battery, etc I will have to trace out.

 

[littleroot]

Leave connector connected so the bulb is in the circuit. Since you have the modulator, which I assume is electronic....

(much good stuff snipped)

Tell us more what you find.

.

I removed the modulator completely. It is ripped out. See my last message, which I composed just as you posted this message.

I found there is a short on the brake light lead causing 5.8v with brake lever engaged or not.

Only thing I can find to contradict what you wrote is both bikes show 9v to the running lights and not 12v (on the good bike I get 9v on both running and brake). I may have bad harness or there is something stepping down the voltage.

Thanks again for your support.
-Bob

 

[Redman]

I think I found the problem after removing the Priority Plus modulator. Thank gosh for having a second bike so I can prove this:

On the good bike and without the brake lever squeezed, with the volt meter in the bulb socket there is 9v on the running light pin and zero volts on the brake light pin. That is normal for the running light filament. When I apply the brake there is 9v on the brake light pin, which lights the second filament and the brake works. Bingo. Now I understand how it is supposed to work.

......

Yep, should measure voltage on tail light ciruit all the time (key on), and no volts on brake light circuit untill activate brake lever then should measure voltage. Yep, that normal, what you should expect. Good that you understand that.

But, ah, a different subject: should be pretty much the same as battery voltage, 12 or 13 volts about. You have meter on volts DC? Try measuring battery voltage, just as a check of meter settings.

On your 1100G the brake light circuit is just the ignition switch, and the fuse and then either brake lever swtiches that put battery power to the brake light, so definatly the brake light voltage should be pretty much same as battery voltage.

I dont have much familiarity with the E, but looking at schematic, can see that brake lever switches (red/blu wire) are wired into the "check panel control unit", and then the "check panel control unit" (wht wire) operates the brake light. I would think that "check panel control unit" might be electronic (anyone?), so I will again make recommendation to have bulb in place when make voltage measurments.

Lets see if brake lever switches are working.
Should have voltage on org/grn wire (between that wire and the ground) to both brake lever switches.
When operate the brake lever swtich(s) should then have voltage on the red/blu wire from the switch(s). This is the signal that goes to the "check panel control unit".

The "check panel control unit" then should put out voltage to the brake light on the white wire.

.

 

[littleroot]

Yep, should measure voltage on tail light ciruit all the time (key on), and no volts on brake light circuit untill activate brake lever then should measure voltage. Yep, that normal, what you should expect. Good that you understand that.

But, ah, a different subject: should be pretty much the same as battery voltage, 12 or 13 volts about. You have meter on volts DC? Try measuring battery voltage, just as a check of meter settings.

On your 1100G the brake light circuit is just the ignition switch, and the fuse and then either brake lever swtiches that put battery power to the brake light, so definatly the brake light voltage should be pretty much same as battery voltage.

I dont have much familiarity with the E, but looking at schematic, can see that brake lever switches (red/blu wire) are wired into the "check panel control unit", and then the "check panel control unit" (wht wire) operates the brake light. I would think that "check panel control unit" might be electronic (anyone?), so I will again make recommendation to have bulb in place when make voltage measurments.

Lets see if brake lever switches are working.
Should have voltage on org/grn wire (between that wire and the ground) to both brake lever switches.
When operate the brake lever swtich(s) should then have voltage on the red/blu wire from the switch(s). This is the signal that goes to the "check panel control unit".

The "check panel control unit" then should put out voltage to the brake light on the white wire.

.

Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes I did test the volt meter and it shows about 12.5 volts on the batteries of both bikes.

If the wife will let me I might dig into it a bit more tonight.... but dang it just started raining here.
Thanks again

 

[Redman]

Yes I did test the volt meter and it shows about 12.5 volts on the batteries of both bikes.
.....

,

And 9 volts at brake light.. on both bikes.
Humm. No explanation for that, especailly on the 1100G. SHould be pretty much battery voltage. Loosing it somewhere, wiring to ignition switch, igition swtich, fuse -- somewhere along the wiring.
Well, unless problem is in the ground wire.

Maybe not a complete answer, but Next time, when ever measuring voltage between A wire and a ground wire, and if you find something that is not quite right; Problem could be either with THE wire or with the ground wire. One thing you could do is also try measuring between THE wire and Frame ground (or battery-), if that is a different voltage than before, then problem is the ground wire is not well grounded. And to further verify, also measure between the ground wire and frame ground(or batt-) with power on, should be zero volts, if not, then have proved that the ground wire is not grounded well.

Dave

.

 

[littleroot]

,

And 9 volts at brake light.. on both bikes.
Humm. No explanation for that, especailly on the 1100G. SHould be pretty much battery voltage. Loosing it somewhere, wiring to ignition switch, igition swtich, fuse -- somewhere along the wiring.
Well, unless problem is in the ground wire.

Maybe not a complete answer, but Next time, when ever measuring voltage between A wire and a ground wire, and if you find something that is not quite right; Problem could be either with THE wire or with the ground wire. One thing you could do is also try measuring between THE wire and Frame ground (or battery-), if that is a different voltage than before, then problem is the ground wire is not well grounded. And to further verify, also measure between the ground wire and frame ground(or batt-) with power on, should be zero volts, if not, then have proved that the ground wire is not grounded well.

Dave

.

I will check against the frame again because I cannot remember doing so on both bikes to get a baseline.

More good info, thanks

 

[littleroot]

do you have this and are they in good condition

Guess what? I got none of those parts for the front switch, not even wire lead is there. Darn it! WTF

 

[littleroot]

Apparently I have something custom here along with the aftermarket brake line, there is an electrical lead I assume is the switch. There is are no parts in the OEM switch cavity all

 

[Guest]

It appears Tom used a hydraulic brake light switch

 

[mvalenti]

I had issues with mine due to dirt and wear... they can be salvaged.
cean it up with a tooth brush and tooth paste, then rinse and dry. You can push the contacts to expose a little more to the wiper side but go easy and support the plastic so it does not crack. I unsoldered the connections to make it easier.

or loose it and get the banjo bolt switch (more reliable)
http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/b...content=9775&gclid=CKieiJa6ibUCFUid4AodwhwAxQ

 

[cowboyup3371]

Yep, he used the banjo bolt style on that front brake. I like the idea of my banjo bolt switch for the rear brake - no fiddling around to get it just right. The Kawasaki MC I'm using has the switch built into the housing so I don't need the bolt for it so it's the best of both worlds I think.

 

[littleroot]

Yep, he used the banjo bolt style on that front brake. I like the idea of my banjo bolt switch for the rear brake - no fiddling around to get it just right. The Kawasaki MC I'm using has the switch built into the housing so I don't need the bolt for it so it's the best of both worlds I think.

Well it would appear this here hydraulic banjo switch has done plucked it's last tune: It's dead Jim!

When tested I do not have continuity across the switch wires when I squeeze the hand brake. When I cross the two leads for the switch the brake light comes on. Huzzah!

Also I figured out the problem with the rear brake switch was at the pedal switch or more specifically its wire-spring(?), which I think must have stretched over the last 33 years because this needed adjustment, I just turned the whole switch in its threads until the brake light came on when moving the pedal about 3/4 inch. It is now at the very end of adjustment travel but it is working.

So if I was to trouble shoot this all over again, I would probably pull the headlamp and try shorting the leads. And for the rear wheel brake switch I would pull on the wire-spring.

Next I'll be asking where to get a new hydraulic banjo switch.

thanks everyone!

 

[cowboyup3371]

Next I'll be asking where to get a new hydraulic banjo switch.

Z1 sells them....like you couldn't have guessed already

 

[littleroot]

Z1 sells them....like you couldn't have guessed already

Yep, calling them tomorrow! Thanks