No start

[bill671mac]

I have a 1983 GS1100GL. Bike was running good all day, all year. Got on the express way and it started to bog down . Loss of power. I let up on the throttle and she was still running but rough. I gave her more throttle slowly and she quit. I tried jump starting it with the speed I had but nothing. So here is what I did so far to figure this out. Starter is good. Battery good. Air filter is clean. Fuel flow from petcock good. Suction form carbs to petcock good. I had the carbs cleaned and balanced twice in 2 years years before this happened . But I took them apart myself and all looks good and clean to me. The plugs look good however there fairly new (2 months). I have spark, how strong I don?t know yet. I did a resistance check on the coils, one check out good and the other coils secondary was way off. But I don?t think that would be my issue. Basically I would like some further knowledge before I start digging into this deeper. Any help or direction would be great. Im thinking about buying the Dyna DC1-1 ignition coil and the Dyna S electronic Ignition.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Fuel level is good? Sounds like you ran out of gas and needed to switch it over to reserve (been there done that too many times)

 

[tkent02]

The plugs look good however there fairly new (2 months). I have spark,

Then why this?

Im thinking about buying the Dyna DC1-1 ignition coil and the Dyna S electronic Ignition.

Is your tank vent clogged? Pop the gas cap open and see if it runs better.

 

[bill671mac]

Thanks guys. Fuel level is good and vent. I even drained all the fuel filled with new. Nothing. Why the new Ignition system, I just want to really is all that comes down too.

 

[Guest]

If that's the original electronics in the ignition system that's going to be a very nice upgrade. It's easy to put in and set up. While you're in there you might want to check the voltage getting to your coils and do the coil mod if it's below 11 amps that way your new coils will be firing red hot. A bike dying like yours did sure 'sounds' like fuel starvation. I know you said you have good fuel flow from the petcock but have you opened your float bowl drains to make sure each carb has fuel in it? the fact that you have a bad secondary reading on one of your coils says something. Pretty hard for a bike to run on two cylinders. keep us updated on your progress.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Did you check the spark on all four plugs? How old is the battery? Have you checked for loose connections everywhere? Have you inspected the wiring harness for melted or worn insulation and connectors? Do you have a full 12v at the coils? Are the spark plugs wet after cranking for a while? Is the compression good? Are you using an inline fuel filter?

See if these shed any light...

Testing The Ignition System

Igniter/Signal Generator/Coil Test

Igniter Repair/Testing (2MB PDF)


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Redman]

....... I did a resistance check on the coils, one check out good and the other coils secondary was way off. But I don’t think that would be my issue. ......

Secondary resistance check:
- with or without the spark plug caps?
- how far "way off" ? yes, that could have you dead on side of road.

Before you replace entire ignition system, do look into the spark plug caps. They do go bad, and are cheap and easy to replace. So, tell us if you checked those.

.

 

[Shwartz]

So if you have good fuel flow, and good spark, have you checked engine timing? I've had timing chains fail. They stretch out,skip a few teeth, which made them run rough and then snap altogether which finally made it die.

 

[Guest]

Does the engine turn over?
How do the plugs look? Wet or dry?
Spray a "little" and I mean little, starting fluid in the air box and see if she'll fire. If she does it probably means she's not getting fuel.

 

[bill671mac]

So if you have good fuel flow, and good spark, have you checked engine timing? I've had timing chains fail. They stretch out,skip a few teeth, which made them run rough and then snap altogether which finally made it die.

I have not checked that. But a very concerning. But I think I would have heard or felt that at the time it shut down. What do you think?

 

[bill671mac]

Secondary resistance check:
- with or without the spark plug caps?
- how far "way off" ? yes, that could have you dead on side of road.

Before you replace entire ignition system, do look into the spark plug caps. They do go bad, and are cheap and easy to replace. So, tell us if you checked those.

.

It was with the caps.

 

[bill671mac]

Ok guys, I tested the compression. #1-75 psi, #2-80 psi, #3-80 psi, #4-100 psi. Manual says standard is 113.78-170.64 psi. Limit of 99.5 psi. Added a cap full of oil to each cyclinder and they all went up by 15-25psi. telling me the rings are bad. The carbs are currently off during test, and all 4 plugs out. If I did something wrong please post reply. Its only 17 degrees F out but with that low of psi reading, I dont think it matters. My concern, is that really low enough to keep it from firing all together? Or do I still have a second problem? The singnal generator resistance ckeck was good. For the Igniter unit check I could not get the plugs to fire. I might be doing something wrong. I had the mulitmeter on ohms but i have no * (times)1 range. I tried checking the voltage to the coils but battery went dead from compression test, so another day for that.
Question. If the rings need to be replaced, is that something an average mech can do reasonably. Or would it be a mess. While im in there valves to I guess. What do you guys think?

 

[Shwartz]

Ok guys, I tested the compression. #1-75 psi, #2-80 psi, #3-80 psi, #4-100 psi. Manual says standard is 113.78-170.64 psi. Limit of 99.5 psi. Added a cap full of oil to each cyclinder and they all went up by 15-25psi. telling me the rings are bad. The carbs are currently off during test, and all 4 plugs out. If I did something wrong please post reply. Its only 17 degrees F out but with that low of psi reading, I dont think it matters. My concern, is that really low enough to keep it from firing all together? Or do I still have a second problem? The singnal generator resistance ckeck was good. For the Igniter unit check I could not get the plugs to fire. I might be doing something wrong. I had the mulitmeter on ohms but i have no * (times)1 range. I tried checking the voltage to the coils but battery went dead from compression test, so another day for that.
Question. If the rings need to be replaced, is that something an average mech can do reasonably. Or would it be a mess. While im in there valves to I guess. What do you guys think?

I won't say that rings are something that I would recommend for someone with very limited mechanical knowledge, but if you've made it this far I would assume that you have to have some level of knowledge of engines. So in that case if you're willing to learn and eager to save some cash then yes you can do them on your own.
However I wouldn't think that this low of reading would cause a "No Fire" condition whatsoever. You'll most likely be slightly burning oil and smelling fuel in your oil during oil changes. You will also notice an engine that is fatigued but a no-start condition is less likely. It most definitely wouldn't have killed the engine during highway riding.

 

[bill671mac]

I won't say that rings are something that I would recommend for someone with very limited mechanical knowledge, but if you've made it this far I would assume that you have to have some level of knowledge of engines. So in that case if you're willing to learn and eager to save some cash then yes you can do them on your own.
However I wouldn't think that this low of reading would cause a "No Fire" condition whatsoever. You'll most likely be slightly burning oil and smelling fuel in your oil during oil changes. You will also notice an engine that is fatigued but a no-start condition is less likely. It most definitely wouldn't have killed the engine during highway riding.

Thats what I figured. I am a Aircaft Mechanic. I work on private and corporate jets so I have a mechanical knowledge. But I work the airframe basically everything but the engine. And if I do its turbine engines. But I have a general knowledge of reciprocating. Other mechanics at work say I would be better off just having someone do it, or just piece the bike out for parts. How hard could it really be, I think I could. Not sure what I'm going to do. hmm. Start with figuring out the no start I guess.

 

[tkent02]

Just run it. You obviously have plenty of compression for that, as it was running fine before..
The rings will eventually fix themselves. Or maybe they won't. It doesn't matter.

Did you find out why it quit running yet?

 

[Redman]

It was with the caps.

So, you checked the coils secondary resitance with the caps on, and one coil was "way off".
So like I asked before... "Way off" high or "way off" low?
If way off high, it could be a cap is bad. Actaully I would say more likley the cap than the coil.
THe caps can be removed. Just twist, unscreww actaully while pulling it off the wire.
Caps can be tested individually, should be about 5K ohms. (so if inplace yet that is about 10K of the 25K the book says, eh.)
If a cap goes bad, it will go way high and then completly open.
Only cost about 5 bucks each to replace. Inside two are different than outside two.
So 20 bucks for all four is sure a lot less than completly replacing the entire ignition system, eh.

If secondary is way off low, then suspect the coil.

Ok guys, I tested the compression. #1-75 psi, #2-80 psi, #3-80 psi, #4-100 psi. ......
............

That compression is not good, is quite low and uneven, but probably isnt why it was running for recent months and all last year and then one day it dies on side of road, and cant get it started again.

.

 

[bill671mac]

Redman, I took the caps off and tested them one by one. 3 of the 4 read 9.85-11.95K. The 4th one was messed up. It would read 326k to 13.85k. check after check was the same. Even went back over the others and they were all consistent. With plugs off, coils read 12.09-11.90K. With Caps back on that same messed up plug was giving high and low numbers, the other coil was good. Will get new plugs and possibly new coils just because. But just one plug being bad shouldn't kill the bike I wouldnt think. With the electrical system checking out ok I'm thinking about going back and looking at the fuel system again. I know fuel is getting to all the float bowls. I took the carbs apart and all looked good but I guess I will play with it a bit more. Maybe the o-rings for the intake went bad? Not likely im sure but im running out of trouble shooting. If it wasnt 15 degress F out this would be alot easier.

 

[koolaid_kid]

I wouldn't replace the coils just yet. What I would do is trim the coil wires back about 1/2 inch. They tend to get corroded over time. Then install the new caps and retest.

 

[bill671mac]

Just run it. You obviously have plenty of compression for that, as it was running fine before..
The rings will eventually fix themselves. Or maybe they won't. It doesn't matter.

Did you find out why it quit running yet?

I could just run it. But knowing the compression numbers in the back of my head, It will drive me nuts. I'm not looking forward to the task but atleast it will be done and over with. Plus it will give me a project for the winter months. Just hope I don't find find something in there I don't want to see.

 

[Steve]

While you're in there you might want to check the voltage getting to your coils and do the coil mod if it's below 11 amps that way your new coils will be firing red hot.

It's even more important if they are below 11 VOLTS.

Ok guys, I tested the compression. #1-75 psi, #2-80 psi, #3-80 psi, #4-100 psi. Manual says standard is 113.78-170.64 psi. Limit of 99.5 psi. Added a cap full of oil to each cyclinder and they all went up by 15-25psi. telling me the rings are bad.

Was the engine cold or warm?

Were the throttles open or closed?

Those suggested readings in the manual are with a fully-warmed engine and the throttles wide open.

.