Non-Suzuki Question - '84 Honda 65 Magna

[McSkillet]

Sorry to post a question about a Honda in this forum but I can't find any forums near as helpful as this one.
I have an '84 V65 Magna that won't start. It acts like it wants to start, but just won't.
1) Tested the kill switch by checking for voltage at the coils. 12+v in run position each = OK? Off = < .5v, which I would think should be zero.
2) Tested the pulse generators, manual says they should test @ 480 ohms. 1 tests @ 481 ohms and the other @ 520 ohms. Is that acceptable?
3) Dismantled the ignitors to check for burnt or broken solder points. Other than one having a light crust in one spot (cleaned before re-assembly) nothing looked suspicious.
4) Brand new battery with new terminals and cleaned both ground points.
5) Pull all 4 plugs boots and used a new plug for a GS750 to check for spark. All 4 have spark, but not like the manual describes. The manual says I should see a "fat blue spark". I see a thin yellow-ish/orange spark. Keep in mind I'm not using the right plug for the Magna.
6) Turned the ignition key vigorously thinking that it would clean the contacts to see if that may be the problem.
7) Gave it a stern talking to. Apparently it has a hearing problem too
I thought about swapping the ignitors out for a Dyna 2000, but I may be jumping the gun only because that is what fixed my problem on my '77 Suzuki GS750. Plus it's a heck of a lot cheaper than 2 OEM ignitors.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[rustybronco]

I have an '84 V65 Magna that won't start. It acts like it wants to start, but just won't.
1) Tested the kill switch by checking for voltage at the coils. 12+v in run position each = OK? Off = < .5v, which I would think should be zero.

2) Tested the pulse generators, manual says they should test @ 480 ohms. 1 tests @ 481 ohms and the other @ 520 ohms. Is that acceptable?

5) Pull all 4 plugs boots and used a new plug for a GS750 to check for spark. All 4 have spark, but not like the manual describes. The manual says I should see a "fat blue spark". I see a thin yellow-ish/orange spark. Keep in mind I'm not using the right plug for the Magna.

7) Gave it a stern talking to. Apparently it has a hearing problem too

Thanks,
Jeff

1. off=<.5v is probably current leakage past the kill switch, because of rust, crud, ect. don't worry about it.

2. going out on a limb, i'd say yes. BUT is the spark the same color/strength on all four cylinders?

5. a new plug for just about anything will be just fine for testing for spark. I use a screw driver inserted into the plug wire at times.
that yellow-ish/orange spark you are seeing is "probably" good enough, for it to start it at this time.
what is the voltage, at the coils, while the bike is cranking?

7. there is a reason some bikes have feminine names.

will it start and run for a while with a short blast of ether?

how about a few more details... was it running fine, then this no start condition suddenly manifested itself?
was it sitting for a long time, then it was received/purchased/gotten in this condition?
what are the compression readings on all cylinders?

how dare you ask about a honda on this forum ! j/k

 

[Guest]

Any fuel on the plugs after cranking? As Rustybro said try a shot of either.

 

[robertbarr]

There used to be a forum dedicated to the V's -- the V45 & 65. I'd look there, since there's bound to be a laundry list of 'usual suspects' to go after, like on the GS's and probably every other vintage machine.

In top condition, the V65 Sabre was a really good looking bike -- good enough to put up with a few mechanical foibles. Plus, of course, they were monstrously fast.

http://powersports.honda.com/the_st..._Model_0107.asp&PrevPageTitle=TimeLine&bhcp=1

 

[trippivot]

getting this running is as easy as getting a suzuki bike running..

pull plugs, do you have BLUE spark when cranking??

use ether "quick start" after replacing the plugs.

carb clean is necessary if you get it running on ether

if it does not start... the list starts getting long....

 

[McSkillet]

Wow! See what I meant in my first line?
I'll give a little more history before I tryout the link robertbarr provided.
* The PO said the bike ran great until he let it set for several weeks before trying to ride it again. Then he got what I now have, and he decided he was through with the motorcycle scene for a while so he sold it to me, cheap.
* I haven't yet checked the voltage at the coils when starting it, but I did check the ohms and they were both at 3.1 across the primaries.
* Spark strength & color appear to look the same on all 4 plug wires. Just not blue...
* I haven't pulled the plugs to see if they are getting fuel, mainly because I don't have an 18mm deepwell socket. Going to get one today...

Thanks again for the helpful replies. I'll let you know what it turns out to be once I get it running.

 

[cloudbreakmd]

This is the V4 equivalent of this site. Take a look, lot's of good info.

http://www.v4hondabbs.com/

 

[McSkillet]

Update... I pulled all 4 plugs, all but 1 of the plug tips looked light brown and had fuel on them and the other was black with fuel. None were soaked for the amount of starting I did prior to pulling them, which I did right before I pulled each plug. All had spark and they all looked the same as the previous test (the spark).
Tested the voltage at the coil primaries and as I was starting the bike the voltage dipped down to the upper 7 volt range. Did the same with a 50 amp battery charger connected.
Lastly, I removed the air filter and sprayed some starter fluid into the housing. I got nothing the first few tries, but after letting it set for a few minutes I gave it another try and it started and ran for a few seconds. Got it to do this a few times.

So, I guess I am looking at an extensive carb rebuild? If anyone disagrees with this diagnosis, please let me know before I start because this doesn't look near as easy as rebuilding the carbs on my GS750. I saw on eBay where I can get rebuilt carbs for under $300 with core exchange. Plus they come with a warranty. Is this a good deal, or should I shop it around or just do it myself?

 

[KiwiGS]

Hey mate
You might want to try the "coil relay" mod.
If you are not getting a nice blue crack at the plugs.
Cheers

 

[McSkillet]

Excellent idea and I already have the necessary parts for the mod. Thanks!

 

[Guest]

if you had such a voltage drop with the 50amp battery charger on, your battery may be shot

btw, 50amp charger would kill motorcycle battery in no time (unless it can be used on lover amps? - 1.5 amps or less is what you want if you want the batt to last)

 

[Guest]

Hook up to a car battery w/out the vehicle running and give it a try. Up the voltage at the coils could get it to run. 7 volts is way too low.

 

[McSkillet]

I use a battery tender jr. for the normal charging. I just used the charger with the 50amp boost to see if the NEW battery was a dud.
I actually started to pull the battery from my car last night to give it a try, but it was getting late. So would I just run a jumper from the car battery (+) to the hot side of the coils so they would get a constant 12 volts from a source that isn't under a load? The (-) would go to a common grounding point on the bike frame, correct?

 

[C.V.]

7) Gave it a stern talking to. Apparently it has a hearing problem too

Did you remember to speak Japanese?

 

[Wstar425]

This is the V4 equivalent of this site. Take a look, lot's of good info.

http://www.v4hondabbs.com/

Get yourself over to this board and get a hold of Billy C, he is the resident carb guru there, and reputation above reproach. He also has a V65 carb rebuild kit that he sells. He has a link called "Billy's Place" at the bottom of the home page. I believe he is in Texas.

I'm told they aren't that difficult, but have not done any yet myself. Have two V65's, both running well at the moment. Talking to a guy about a 1984 V65 Magna, not running, for a winter project. Wants $900.00, waiting to hear back from him, so I might be right there with you in a week or so.

Good luck.

If it runs on ether, you are looking at carbs to start with. These are notorious for plugging up with a year or so of sitting. Lots of very tiny holes in there it sounds like. CAUTION!!!!!!!!! I know from reading over there that you DON"T want to soak the entire carb, or at least the slides in carb cleaner as it will ruin them and they are expensive and almost impossible to get.

Doug, Wstar425 on that board too.

 

[rustybronco]

Welcome Wstar4-1/4

 

[McSkillet]

I finally figured out what I was doing wrong at the Honda forum. I was lurking for answers while not being a member .
For what Billy is asking to rebuild the carbs, I'm sending mine to him and saving myself the hassle.
So I guess now that I know how to use the Honda forum I'll take any further Honda questions there and stick to posting questions/answers about my '77 GS750 here.
Thanks to all for the helpful answers.

 

[Guest]

I use a battery tender jr. for the normal charging. I just used the charger with the 50amp boost to see if the NEW battery was a dud.
I actually started to pull the battery from my car last night to give it a try, but it was getting late. So would I just run a jumper from the car battery (+) to the hot side of the coils so they would get a constant 12 volts from a source that isn't under a load? The (-) would go to a common grounding point on the bike frame, correct?

you can simply jump it by attaching the jumper cables to your battery

 

[Wstar425]

I see Billy C has it posted that he is not taking any carbs right now as he is overwhelmed with work. Not sure if that is up to date or not, maybe he just forgot and is wondering why he has no business I'd give him a call anyhow.

 

[McSkillet]

I called and spoke to Billy's wife, Billy was out on vacation, and she said that at that point and time Billy only had one set waiting on him when he returned. After I removed the carbs, I removed the float bowls and it wasn't very pretty inside there . I've attached a picture for everyone's amusement. I should have the carbs back sometime this week.