Not startng for seemingly no reason

[JaNewb]

Hopefully this is less confusing to some one here then it is to me.

I'm in madison WI, currently about 20-30 F.
I've had a problem where my bike won't start for seemingly no reason other then not running for a couple days. I've checked my fuel line, spark, and made sure my carbs are clean. Sand blasted the entire inside of them and the jets were clear. My gas is also new and lines don't seem to have a leak anywhere. I also changed my plugs recently so those can still be considered new, almost completely silver still. I also completely replaced my electrical system(stator, regulator, battery). My stator was bad. So everything that should be there to run the bike is there. However when I try to start it, it gets up to 2000 rpm's with an open choke and a bit of throttle then it dies. I had to use starting fluid to get it going. If I do any more throttle then just a bit the rpms plummet and it dies. Now a few days later after it almost ran, it rumbles for a sec then goes back to turning over with no ignition. It's been under a cover in my garage with oil pan heaters on it but that doesn't seem to have helped. Any idea's on what to check next? I'm kind of stumped. I've also adjusted my valves recently so that shouldn't be an issue. A minor thing as well is my airbox doesn't line up right with my carbs and there's a small gap on the bottom of each of my connections between the air box and carbs. I plan to fix it by getting individual air filters for each carb air intake but until it runs I'm not going to order them since it ran fine just a week ago.

 

[Agemax]

you sandblasted your carbs? i hope you cleaned them out Very well afterwards!

 

[Tom R]

If your air box isn't sealing right, you're going to have some issues.
Like he said; sandblasted?

 

[JaNewb]

Ya the only time I took my bike into a shop was to change the tires. While I was there I was worried about my carbs and asked the mechanic to clean them for good measure. Barely cost me much more since I go there for parts all the time and they were pretty clean already.

Oh ya sandblasted and cleaned is what he said. I could take off my carbs and check them in depth as well but they looked clean when I took the tops off them the other day - Edit

So it could be that little space between my airbox and carbs? Maybe I should get those individual air filters then and see if they help.

 

[tkent02]

Sandblasting carburetors? Really?
Post the name of this shop please so nobody ever goes there again.

 

[JaNewb]

I didn't know that was such a bad thing. The only place I ever go to is Suters speed shop. Why is sandblasting such a bad thing for carbs?

Ahaha..... wow, sorry it's been a long day. I just thought about that. Little tiny particles in a thing that depends on little tiny openings..... Though I'm sure if he was a good mechanic he would've checked the openings afterwards and cleaned everything with compressed air. It's been months since then though so if something were to go wrong it would've happened a while ago no? I haven't been working on bikes that long so I could very easily be wrong.

 

[Guest]

Really sandblasted. My god why would you do that. Well whats done is done now pull your carbs off and clean the sand out of them properly , with a good chemical dip and new o-rings and your bike will probably run properly. Really sandblasted them.

 

[Guest]

I didn't know that was such a bad thing. The only place I ever go to is Suters speed shop. Why is sandblasting such a bad thing for carbs?

Sand in little tiny holes = blockage, sandin a internal combustion engine = total engine failure sand is a BIG no no

 

[Agemax]

Little tiny particles in a thing that depends on little tiny openings.....

not taking the pi$$, but that has to be the best quote i have heard for a long time.
very true but made me chuckle.......

 

[tkent02]

Really sandblasted. My god why would you do that. Well whats done is done now pull your carbs off and clean the sand out of them properly , with a good chemical dip and new o-rings and your bike will probably run properly. Really sandblasted them.

Sand is one of the few things carburetor dip won't touch.

Compressed air driving grains of sand deeper into the tiny passages can't be good either.

Little tiny particles in a thing that depends on little tiny openings.....

Good stuff.

 

[allojohn]

You better hope the shop did no more than spray carb cleaner in there and you've still got dirty carbs. The tech was trying to impress saying such a stupid thing.

Dip the carbs as per the BassCliff pdf fix your airbox boots and away you go.

 

[JaNewb]

Sand is one of the few things carburetor dip won't touch.

Compressed air driving grains of sand deeper into the tiny passages can't be good either.





Good stuff.

So I'll be cleaning out my carbs completely by hand then with a needle and then dipping them in carb cleaner afterward? Or is it just more worth it to buy a set of carbs?

But yea. I think that's gonna be my personal quote for a while. I'm glad everyone here seemed to enjoy it as much as I did. Cuz while I was uproariously laughing at my own words I shed just a single tear inside. =P

So my complete plan as it is is to clean every carb by hand first, dip them in cleaner, get my new air filters and attach them so their without any gap and see how it goes. Any other info would be greatly appreciated. I always leave this forum feeling awesome btw. =D I get chuckles and help, what more in the world is there?

 

[Agemax]

if you are going to pod filters then you will also need to rejet the carbs. you should start with a dynojet stage 3 kit to give you a good starting point.

 

[Steve]

Apparently you have seen the light, from some of the posts above, but I see a few things wrong.

Sand blasted the entire inside of them and the jets were clear.

You have seen the light here, and realize that the jets are not the only thing that can get clogged.

I didn't know that was such a bad thing. The only place I ever go to is Suters speed shop. Why is sandblasting such a bad thing for carbs?

Ahaha..... wow, sorry it's been a long day. I just thought about that. Little tiny particles in a thing that depends on little tiny openings.

A very saveable quote, indeed.

I also changed my plugs recently so those can still be considered new, almost completely silver still.

Not sure what part you are looking for color change on, the part you should be looking at starts out WHITE, and will change to tan. SILVER is not involved.

However when I try to start it, it gets up to 2000 rpm's with an open choke and a bit of throttle then it dies.

This is entirely NORMAL. The "choke" is not a choke, like on older cars or your lawn mower, it is an "enrichment system" that uses different passages and jets in the carb. It also relies on the high vacuum of a CLOSED throttle to work, so if you open the throttle AT ALL, it will not work. If you need to modulate the speed while on "choke", adjust your "choke" knob.

I had to use starting fluid to get it going. If I do any more throttle then just a bit the rpms plummet and it dies.

Please, THROW THE STARTING FLUID AWAY. It is far too easy to do LOTS of damage by using that stuff. Your bike is telling you that something is wrong, you will not fix it by spraying starting fluid.
Oh, and adding throttle while on "choke" is still a bad idea.

Now a few days later after it almost ran, it rumbles for a sec then goes back to turning over with no ignition.

The fact that it does run (occasionally) tells you that you have spark. If it stops (especially when cold), it's probably out of gas. Yeah, you might have gas in the tank and maybe even in the float bowls, but that does not mean it's getting from the float bowls, through the jets AND ALL THE TINY LITTLE PASSAGES into the engine to get burned.

I've also adjusted my valves recently so that shouldn't be an issue.

Do you remember what your final clearances are? Just out of curiosity, if they are too tight, you will have problems starting a cold engine.

A minor thing as well is my airbox doesn't line up right with my carbs and there's a small gap on the bottom of each of my connections between the air box and carbs. I plan to fix it by getting individual air filters for each carb air intake but until it runs I'm not going to order them since it ran fine just a week ago.

Sorry, but if this issue of not starting is baffling you, you don't want to take on the project of switching to pods and the re-jetting that will follow. Some of the best of us are baffled by the challenge of re-jetting a bike for pods.

So I'll be cleaning out my carbs completely by hand then with a needle and then dipping them in carb cleaner afterward? Or is it just more worth it to buy a set of carbs?

Look at BassCliff's site to find a tutorial by Nessism on how to properly clean your carbs.

The procedure is just a little different than what you have suggested, it's more like: disassemble the carbs COMPLETELY, soak each carb and its jets for about 24 hours, re-assemble the carbs by installing new o-rings from cycleorings.com, make some basic adjustments, fire the bike up. It's not all that hard, will just take the better part of a week to do it. It's only about 45 minutes to an hour each day, the soaking it what takes all the time.

.

 

[Gorminrider]

IF these are full of sand, I would not be pushing "needles" through passages. Several passages make right angled turns and can't be cleaned that way! better to soak + blow these out from the opposite way that debris would "naturally"get sucked into these when the bike is turning over...
but still if the bike was running really Properly last week after the valve and carb stuff, I'd be inclined to reread all the tips above and re-trouble-shoot the stuff you can do without taking it all down. To get the best indication of where-to-look. ..Like more gas in the tank per above and turning the fuel tap to Prime...and checking the gas tap vacuum hose, gas in the bowls etc. etc.

 

[JaNewb]

IF these are full of sand, I would not be pushing "needles" through passages. Several passages make right angled turns and can't be cleaned that way! better to soak + blow these out from the opposite way that debris would "naturally"get sucked into these when the bike is turning over...
but still if the bike was running really Properly last week after the valve and carb stuff, I'd be inclined to reread all the tips above and re-trouble-shoot the stuff you can do without taking it all down. To get the best indication of where-to-look. ..Like more gas in the tank per above and turning the fuel tap to Prime...and checking the gas tap vacuum hose, gas in the bowls etc. etc.

Oh yea I don't have a tap. It just goes straight from my tank to my filter to my carbs. I just ordered an inline petcock in the off chance that not having a petcock is the problem and I'm maybe flooding things?

 

[cowboyup3371]

What kind of filter do you have? Most fuel filters are too restrictive for our gravity fed systems (and you do need a regular petcock) and are not needed unless your tank is very rusty. Get rid of it or buy one made for a lawn tractor IF you really need it.

 

[JaNewb]

Not sure what part you are looking for color change on, the part you should be looking at starts out WHITE, and will change to tan. SILVER is not involved.




Please, THROW THE STARTING FLUID AWAY. It is far too easy to do LOTS of damage by using that stuff. Your bike is telling you that something is wrong, you will not fix it by spraying starting fluid.
Oh, and adding throttle while on "choke" is still a bad idea.



The fact that it does run (occasionally) tells you that you have spark. If it stops (especially when cold), it's probably out of gas. Yeah, you might have gas in the tank and maybe even in the float bowls, but that does not mean it's getting from the float bowls, through the jets AND ALL THE TINY LITTLE PASSAGES into the engine to get burned.



Do you remember what your final clearances are? Just out of curiosity, if they are too tight, you will have problems starting a cold engine.



Sorry, but if this issue of not starting is baffling you, you don't want to take on the project of switching to pods and the re-jetting that will follow. Some of the best of us are baffled by the challenge of re-jetting a bike for pods.




Look at BassCliff's site to find a tutorial by Nessism on how to properly clean your carbs.

The procedure is just a little different than what you have suggested, it's more like: disassemble the carbs COMPLETELY, soak each carb and its jets for about 24 hours, re-assemble the carbs by installing new o-rings from cycleorings.com, make some basic adjustments, fire the bike up. It's not all that hard, will just take the better part of a week to do it. It's only about 45 minutes to an hour each day, the soaking it what takes all the time.

.

Ah ok so the things I thought were ok probably aren't. My plugs are a little black, not tan.

**** is it possible I've already really damaged my bike with starting fluid? I did have to use it a couple times to start it when it was too cold before and not going.

I guess I'll have to open her up and check my clearances to make sure huh. It's been a couple months since the valve adjustment.

I've checked my plugs after I've tried to start it and I can smell gas. I can see the gas on my plugs too but could it be that it's simply not getting enough?

But the thing with that gap between all the connections of my airbox and carbs. An idea on how to close that gap isn't coming to me. I've tried for the better part of an hour to adjust my carbs height to line up with my airbox but it just doesn't want to go where it needs to. Even if I clean my carbs completely won't that gap cause problems?

 

[cowboyup3371]

Insert your carbs into the airbox first then connect them to the engine side. You'll have some finagling to do but it will work. If the airbox slides off after you tighten the clamps, you'll want to invest in a new set of clamps which generally aren't that expensive.

 

[JaNewb]

What kind of filter do you have? Most fuel filters are too restrictive for our gravity fed systems (and you do need a regular petcock) and are not needed unless your tank is very rusty. Get rid of it or buy one made for a lawn tractor IF you really need it.

What qualifies as really needing it? my filter has a little bit of debris in it but I don't see any kind of accumulation so I guess I don't need it. I'll change out my filter with a petcock then.

Thanks for the tip, I'll try attaching it that way.