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Odd oil appearing in carb.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bustedknuckles
  • Start date Start date
B

Bustedknuckles

Guest
so a very good friend of mine has an 81' yamaha 850 special...(i know its not a suzuki but im lost on this one...)

he got the bike a few months ago, it appeared to run well but we broke the carbs down and cleaned em just in case...

after getting them back together and on the bike it ran no differently, after a spin around town and popping the airbox off there was some oily residue in the far right carb... i was hoping it was some sort of residual goo left somewhere in the carb or intake that just found its way into the carb... after cleaning it up 100% and putting it back together he took it for another spin... afterwards, we took the airbox off and it was the same situation...

he took it out twice more, (total of 4) and after every ride it was the same thing... after cleaning it and riding around town, we take the airbox off and there is oily residue in the far right carb... im assuming its engine oil because what else could it be?? but im concerned as to what could be causing it...

im including an image of the carb, if you have any idea of what could be causing this i would greatly appreciate it, even an idea of where to start would be great.

thanks again everybody!
Sincerely,
~Nate
 
Did you pull the plugs? I would be interested to see what that one looks like vs the others. How is compression across all cylinders? Have you done a leak down test to check rings? Have you pulled the valve cover to check out valve seals? Does it smoke at all?
 
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Engine blow-by mixed with gasoline? Is the float height in spec?
 
unfortunately replaced the plugs a couple days ago and i dont remember seeing anything too out of wack... neither of us have a compression gauge so im not sure about that either, apparently there was some lite smoking coming from the air pod on that carb... i havent checked the seals on the valves yet, thats soon on the list... and i have NO idea what a leak down test is... im assuming though that it may be very helpful in determining whats wrong... right now im really just looking for a "most likely this" response, which you have given me a great start on... i"ll pop the valve cover off and check out the valve seals, and i really need to get a compression gauge...

thanks again though fellas
 
Intake valve stuck open and getting the blow-by shoved back to the carb on the compression stroke? :-k

Daniel
 
Hi,

Is the oil over-filled? Is there too much oil vapor making its way back into the carbs via the crankcase breather? Is the air filter over-oiled or need to be cleaned?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
uhmm...are you sure its oil? Might just be fuel mixed with some funk...Seen something like that before.
 
Bustedknuckles said:
after getting them back together and on the bike it ran no differently, after a spin around town and popping the airbox off there was some oily residue in the far right carb...
i was hoping it was some sort of residual goo left somewhere in the carb or intake that just found its way into the carb...
after cleaning it up 100% and putting it back together he took it for another spin... afterwards, we took the airbox off and it was the same situation...

he took it out twice more, (total of 4) and after every ride it was the same thing... after cleaning it and riding around town, we take the airbox off and there is oily residue in the far right carb....
im assuming its engine oil because what else could it be?? but im concerned as to what could be causing it...

thanks again everybody!
Sincerely,
~Nate
Click to expand...


The key words here are that it is ONLY happening in the one far right carb. ;)


Daniel
 
alright, so i think ive narrowed it down to the intake valve seal being bad on the far right cylinder, due to the fact that its only that carb with the issue and also because the oil is leaking out of the carb not exhaust, i HAVENT checked the cylinder compression or done a leak down test yet but the tools to do so are IN THE MAIL. i figured the valve seals need replaced anyways so i'll go ahead and do it. hopefully this is the issue...

i am going to attempt the valve job WITHOUT removing the head, i heard it can be done with compressed air or by stuffing the cylinder with some sort of cord or rope... i know its not by the book but thats what im trying first... if it doesnt work or if a part falls into the cylinder then obviously i'll pull the head but i REALLY dont wanna have to unhook everything and pull the motor...

so here's the question... do i need any specialty tools? i know they make valve spring compressors, but ive also heard of people doing this without them... and does anyone have any advice or suggestions on how to approach this?

Thanks again everybody,
Sincerely,
~Nate
 
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I use a motorcycle valve spring compressor myself as they can be had for under $60.00
If you received BassCliff's welcome, it should contain a way to modify a piece of PCV pipe to help with the task for cheap in it.

Daniel
 
im not opposed to getting a valve spring compressor, i AM opposed to removing the motor in order to get the head off... if i get the tool it can only be used if the head is off right??? it compresses the spring from both ends...

what im really wanting to know is does anyone have any adivice on performing this repair WITHOUT pulling the head? AND does anyone have a good DIY that i can refer to?
 
With automotive engines, you can usually turn the engine over until the piston is down, fill the cylinder with rope and turn the engine until it holds the valves in place.
Then you would use a tool that is mounted to a rocker stud and depress the valve top seat down to remove the keepers and go from there.
On these engines, I don't know/haven't heard of anyone making a tool to depress the valve retainer with the engine together.
Perhaps someone who knows of such a tool might chime in?

Daniel
 
You don't have to pull the engine to pull the head.

I've never known of anyone removing the valve springs with the head attached. If you succeed please take lots of photos and share.
 
I had a tool that I used to remove the valve springs on my V8 351C with the head in place. Lots of room in there to fit it. I never saw a Yamaha head so I dont know what kind of room there is in there.
Kind of like this one here:
 
Well, there are a few recommendations that make a lot of sense, but it sounds like you're diving into the head without even doing a compression check?

1. You haven't said if you've confirmed whether it is oil or gas. I read the pod filter was smoking a bit - sounds like that filter may have been simply been sprayed with too much oil.

2. You haven't done a compression test. (If you have good, consistent compression across all cylinders, the clearances/seating would be generally fine.)

3. Hows the engine run? Sound like its running on all 3? Is that cylinders exhaust pipe heating up like the others when it's running?

If you just feel like tearing the head off and checking/adjusting valve clearances, that's fine too.
 
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its definitely oil, the bike runs on all 3 cylinders and my buddy said all three exhaust pipes get really hot. from what he told me it runs pretty well, he was able to ride around without much hesitation or stumbling, but it was still present... the air filters are brand new K&N pre-oiled pods, and besides, over-oiled pods wouldn't explain motor oil in the carbs. so i dont believe thats the issue...

if i can pull the head off without removing the motor than that's definitely what I'll do, i just really don't want to have to pull out the motor, im planning on testing the compression but simply dont have the tools yet... in the meantime im going to go with my gut and replace the valve seals, i already have the new seals and im sure it could use it anyway...

now for the stupid questions... I've never done valve work nor have i pulled a head, anyone know of a good write up i can refer to? I've google'd around a bit but haven't found anything useful so far... if i have to I'll just dive in there and learn hands on, but i would like to gain a little knowledge prior to tearing the top end apart, also, beside replacing the obvious gaskets what else do i have to replace/adjust during this whole process? do i have to do anything with the pistons? what about the timing chain?

sorry about all the questions but ive just never done any of this before, its also my best buds bike and the last thing i want to tell him is that i accidentally trashed his motor and dont know how to fix it... heres a pic of the motor, please let me know if you think there is enough clearance to pull the head off...

Thanks again everybody...
Sincerely,
~Nate
 
heres another picture of the valves, let me know if you see anything i should pay special attention to...
 
blowby pcv system

blowby pcv system

Hi,
I dont know specifically about the triple yammi, but I have two xs11s and they are the same cylinder as your triple. I would not do anything with tearing into the valve system, until you are absolutely sure of ,, plug color,,compression,,, and the pcv system for those carbs /airboxes. Who knows, you may have an oddball po replacement item in there thats not hooked up right. You need a manual before you do anything, and join the yammi list to find out the specifics of what you should have as a pcv system. Ive heard of airboxes on xs11 s being switched out by po s, and they arent the same pcv system,, from year to year. If you have individual pipes into the airbox, from the pcv system, make sure the other two arent plugged and forcing all the blowby into that one carb of the system. I would also be sure, that a carb vent , for that carb , isnt hooked up directly to the pcv system, accidentally, since you are talking about pods. Is it possible that pcv is hooked into a carb vent, just on that one carb and all pcv crud is being funnelled just thru that one? That would explain a messy carb if its all being funneled into one, when there should be three different ones hooked up. What about overfilled oil possibilities, blowing excess into the pcv system. What about leaked fuel, in the oil system creating an oily blowby due to bad needle and seat allowing gas into the oil. The way to check for gas in the oil is to stick a stick into the oil, pull it out and smell it, if its at all gassy, then walk fifty feet away, and see if the stick can be lit afire with a match, if it lights, there is likely gasoline overfilling the oil system, and the engine should NOT be run, until the oil is changed. If I were you, I would be talking to the xs 11 list at the very least, or maybe there is a yammi triple list that could give you more specifics.
 
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