Sorry, I didn't read very well.
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I
irishluck
Guest
Its all good. I guess Ill just take the carbs off and clean them again
I
irishluck
Guest
what are the chances that the spark plugs can be so fouled out that they wouldnt fire?
I asked this because I removed the card from the inlet pipes on the engine and the carbs outlet end are all wet with fuel. All 4 carbs, and the inlet pipes on the engine that the
carb attaches too are covered in fuel on all 4 as well.
So could the plugs just be that fouled out?
UPDATE: Nvm about the plugs. I just put another brand new set of plugs in and 1 and 4 still aren't firing. I don't understand whats going on.
Just so no one ask how I know 1 and 4 arent firing, its cause I am using a temp gun and measuring the exhaust. 2 and 3 are heating up quick to 200* while 1 and 4 stay at about 60*-70*.
UPDATE #2: Okay after trying to start it again, cylinder #4 randomly starts firing after I try to rev it a few times.
I checked the temps, which I think are very odd.
Cylinder 4 is at about 325*. Cylinder 3 is at about 200* and cylinder 2 is at about 450*.
If I member reading somewhere, there is a a result of running to lean or rich correct?
I will add as well that it is not a timing issue. I just checked it and everything is in spec as well.
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I asked this because I removed the card from the inlet pipes on the engine and the carbs outlet end are all wet with fuel. All 4 carbs, and the inlet pipes on the engine that the
carb attaches too are covered in fuel on all 4 as well.
So could the plugs just be that fouled out?
UPDATE: Nvm about the plugs. I just put another brand new set of plugs in and 1 and 4 still aren't firing. I don't understand whats going on.
Just so no one ask how I know 1 and 4 arent firing, its cause I am using a temp gun and measuring the exhaust. 2 and 3 are heating up quick to 200* while 1 and 4 stay at about 60*-70*.
UPDATE #2: Okay after trying to start it again, cylinder #4 randomly starts firing after I try to rev it a few times.
I checked the temps, which I think are very odd.
Cylinder 4 is at about 325*. Cylinder 3 is at about 200* and cylinder 2 is at about 450*.
If I member reading somewhere, there is a a result of running to lean or rich correct?
I will add as well that it is not a timing issue. I just checked it and everything is in spec as well.
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I
irishluck
Guest
Alright I just 100% rebuilt the carbs. Stripped them completely down and chemdipped them. Took air to each and every nook and cranny. They are spotless. No jets were clogged, nothing.
Will install tomorrow to see what happens, but if it doesn't fix the issue then Im at a lose.
If its got spark, fuel, good compression, new plugs, valves have been reshimmed and fresh built carbs and still doesn't run on all 4, then what else could it be?
Will install tomorrow to see what happens, but if it doesn't fix the issue then Im at a lose.
If its got spark, fuel, good compression, new plugs, valves have been reshimmed and fresh built carbs and still doesn't run on all 4, then what else could it be?
Okay, so if did not take the carbs off the rack, then do not have to be concerendd that maybe got carb bodys back in wrong place.
Your statement also makes me think that you didn't dip them for 24hours each. Well, unless you have a really big dip bucket.
Please describe your "chemdipped".
Note: To dip each carb for 24 hours in a typical carb dip bucket (1 gallon size, Berryman's) would take 4 days, since can fit only on carb at a time.
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irishluck
Guest
I didn't dip them for 24 hours this time, only a few hours
There clean though. I checked every jet before I cleaned them again and there was no dirt anywhere, no clogged jets
After they were dipped, I took them outside and sprayed them with a power washer so every single passage way is clean and clear.
So when I get time to today, I will put them back on and give them a try
I do have to grab a few new o-rings in the city today for the black rails that go between them
But other than that they are 100% clean and hopefully that does the trick.
There clean though. I checked every jet before I cleaned them again and there was no dirt anywhere, no clogged jets
After they were dipped, I took them outside and sprayed them with a power washer so every single passage way is clean and clear.
So when I get time to today, I will put them back on and give them a try
I do have to grab a few new o-rings in the city today for the black rails that go between them
But other than that they are 100% clean and hopefully that does the trick.
G
Guest
Guest
Did you bench sync them?
I
irishluck
Guest
I synced the carbs on the bike with a motion pro 4 carb sync tool. Which I will do again when I install the carbs back on the bike
Make sure you first do a good bench sync first. If the carbs are too far off at startup it can cause some issues that look like a bad carb problem. I use a .04mm feeler gauge to do the bench sync. Get carb #3 setup first with the feeler gauge just able to go through. Adjust it using the idle adjustment knob. Once you get #3 setup correctly then adjust all the other so they can just pass the feeler gauge through with a little resistance. After all is adjusted you can give the idle adjustment knob another half turn in to get the idle near the 2K mark on startup. Vacuum sync should be pretty close after that.
but... ah... you say 2 cyclinders are not firing... seems like the syncing under that condition would be way off.
Maybe just a bench sync would be a better starting point.
(I will let other, more experienced, folks comment on the "couple hour" carb dip.)
Again, to verify:
Your problem at present is cyclinder 1 & 4 not firing (pipes not warming up), cyclinder 1 & 4 seems dry of fuel, but carb bowls show fuel. THis occured after doing a valve shim adjust. Was running prior to the valve shim adjust. And have tried carb clean after all this. (I restate this for the folks joining the thread, since is now different symptoms/situation than originally stated in thread title.)
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Agreed with the above and I'll be one of those to say that a couple of hours didn't truly clean them out - there are small passages you can't see that will be clogged. Follow the procedures in the Carb Rebuild procedures posted on Basscliff's page or you won't have a good solid baseline to troubleshoot from.
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irishluck
Guest
But doing a sync on the bike can bypass the benc sync. Before you sync the carbs all together with a carb sync tool you have to calibrate it first which is off the main carb. Once that is done then you sync all the 4 carbs together. But just to make sure. I just took my feeler gauge and put the .038mm gauge through and it goes right through it.
After I let each carb sit for a couple hours I took a power washer to every nook and cranny on the carb and then took a air hose to everything.
Now just to let everyone know as well, this is the 3rd time the carbs have been cleaned. Before I did a shim job, all 4 cylinders were firings. I just had a lot of backfire
which then i was told by some guys on here that I needed to do a shim job. When the shims were checked it was to my knowledge that the valves were way to tight which needed to be reshimmed.
After the shim job, these problems have surfaced.
Now something I did notice while cleaning the carbs. One of the needle jets, there is a small pin that slides against the float, It seemed like It was stuck. So I cleaned those as well, all of them slide perfectly on the seat.
I am replacing the seals for the seats as well.
After I let each carb sit for a couple hours I took a power washer to every nook and cranny on the carb and then took a air hose to everything.
Now just to let everyone know as well, this is the 3rd time the carbs have been cleaned. Before I did a shim job, all 4 cylinders were firings. I just had a lot of backfire
which then i was told by some guys on here that I needed to do a shim job. When the shims were checked it was to my knowledge that the valves were way to tight which needed to be reshimmed.
After the shim job, these problems have surfaced.
Now something I did notice while cleaning the carbs. One of the needle jets, there is a small pin that slides against the float, It seemed like It was stuck. So I cleaned those as well, all of them slide perfectly on the seat.
I am replacing the seals for the seats as well.
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G
Guest
Guest
Three times on carbs?
Check compression
Check compression
Agreed. If the problem occurred right after a valve adjustment, it may vary well be a screwed up adjustment which would show up as low compression.
I also question the "pressure washing" of the carbs. Doesn't sound like you're following the rebuild tutorial.
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irishluck
Guest
Please read my previous comments. I already did a compression test to rule that out.
Just grabbing at straws here.....
Was running, adjusted the valves (shim job), and now cylinder 1 & 4 not firing (ex pipe not heating up). 1&4 cyclinder seem dry of gas, but have gas in bowls of all 4 carbs.
I cant think of anything with the valve adjust that that would effect what you are saying .... ah, you didnt take the cams out did you?... just grabbing at straws here.... but that would effect compression which you say is fairly good.
Any thing with the shim job that would cause the symptoms you say, would have to be so bad that it effects the compression.
Symptoms of gas in bowls but cyclinder seems dry, certainly sounds like carb needing cleaning.
The fact that it is 1 & 4, sounds like ignition problem, but you say that is good... and also see cylinders 1 & 4 seem dry of gas.... so... come back to carb cleaning (but that not at all related to the shim job).
And then in working on this problem you have cleaned carbs twice and three times. One time was spraying and blowing, another time was dissasembly from rack and Dipp for couple hours.
Most of my ewxperince with carb cleaning, was for years I would take carbs off bike, leave in rack, and sray carb cleanoer in everywere I could find, with little results. Then, after a few years, I would take out the jets and seats, and spray carb cleaniner everywherer and look for it to come out someplace, with maybe some better results. Did that for years and years.
Just going by what folks here said, and I have seen comments that need 24 complete submurge in chem dipp, with all the jets and seat removed and seperate in the dip, to get at and into through all the little passage ways thru the carb body. Can blow air or spray carb cleaner through the passage way and see it come out someplace else, but dont know if is comming out all the places it should or if the passage was is complelty clear. This is what other more experienced folk than I had told me. After my previous attempts at spraying-in-everyplace-and-see-come-out-somewhere did not provide much improvement, I did get a bucket of chem dip, and take each carb off the rack, and dissasemble each carb, and remove jets and seats, and dipp each one for 24 hours. Ah, that actaully made a difference, much better.
Other suggestion might be, on next carb clean, also get an o-ring kit and replace all the o-rings.
Search for Robert Barr Cycle O-rings. A fine member here who sells a kit of all the orings for very reasonable price, and are the proper type of orings.
And maybe also the o-rings in the rubber boots. And a kit of nicer boot bolts.
.
Was running, adjusted the valves (shim job), and now cylinder 1 & 4 not firing (ex pipe not heating up). 1&4 cyclinder seem dry of gas, but have gas in bowls of all 4 carbs.
I cant think of anything with the valve adjust that that would effect what you are saying .... ah, you didnt take the cams out did you?... just grabbing at straws here.... but that would effect compression which you say is fairly good.
Any thing with the shim job that would cause the symptoms you say, would have to be so bad that it effects the compression.
Symptoms of gas in bowls but cyclinder seems dry, certainly sounds like carb needing cleaning.
The fact that it is 1 & 4, sounds like ignition problem, but you say that is good... and also see cylinders 1 & 4 seem dry of gas.... so... come back to carb cleaning (but that not at all related to the shim job).
And then in working on this problem you have cleaned carbs twice and three times. One time was spraying and blowing, another time was dissasembly from rack and Dipp for couple hours.
Most of my ewxperince with carb cleaning, was for years I would take carbs off bike, leave in rack, and sray carb cleanoer in everywere I could find, with little results. Then, after a few years, I would take out the jets and seats, and spray carb cleaniner everywherer and look for it to come out someplace, with maybe some better results. Did that for years and years.
Just going by what folks here said, and I have seen comments that need 24 complete submurge in chem dipp, with all the jets and seat removed and seperate in the dip, to get at and into through all the little passage ways thru the carb body. Can blow air or spray carb cleaner through the passage way and see it come out someplace else, but dont know if is comming out all the places it should or if the passage was is complelty clear. This is what other more experienced folk than I had told me. After my previous attempts at spraying-in-everyplace-and-see-come-out-somewhere did not provide much improvement, I did get a bucket of chem dip, and take each carb off the rack, and dissasemble each carb, and remove jets and seats, and dipp each one for 24 hours. Ah, that actaully made a difference, much better.
Other suggestion might be, on next carb clean, also get an o-ring kit and replace all the o-rings.
Search for Robert Barr Cycle O-rings. A fine member here who sells a kit of all the orings for very reasonable price, and are the proper type of orings.
And maybe also the o-rings in the rubber boots. And a kit of nicer boot bolts.
.
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irishluck
Guest
Let me put the carbs back on the bike and also check the coil again and see where im at with that.
I