Paint still kicking my butt!

[spyug]

I am having a devil of a time with paint these days and I'm still farting with the tank I started last week.

As I mentioned, I ran out of clear half way into it and some of it ran so i had to sand it all off. In doing that, i burned through some of the new base coat (black over red). I fixed that with some fresh base but it likely didn't outgas enough since the new clear went to instant 'alligator skin" the moment it hit it. i also got some runs again .....so back to the sanding. I've never had one this hard before.

My bad luck continued with my Katana paint job. Putting the clear on my fairing, the gun started dripping ( the lid was not on the cup properly) and I ended up with some nasty runs....so more sanding. When ready to do the tank, I must have had some thinners on my gloves as I manged to get a nice thumb print in in my base coat. More sanding and repainting.

I just can't catch a break and I'm just about ready to take them all in for a pro-job

Man its been a tough week and it didn't help when I went to the bike show on Saturday and saw some gorgeous custom paint and realized I really don't have much painting talent

Well back to it this week I guess.

Cheers,
Spyug

 

[Ponderosa]

Too much fun!

Too much fun!

I do know how you feel, I have done whole cars and had less trouble than this old tank! It had a few little dings, so figured I would hit them with a little filler and prime...... It has now been TWO weeks, was about done with it day before yesterday, and my battery charger fell from the bench onto it when my compressor kicked on (vibration).. I was outside working on the kids car when it happened, all I thought I had was a little more sanding, came in and found a large dent! Was POed! Had to heat and shrink hammer this one! Gonna take me another week! I like to leave fill primer on for at least a week before I start final sand.. Then two stage paint UGH...

 

[Dave8338]

Hang in there pal! We've all had "those" projects.

I don't wear gloves of any kind when I paint. Never have and it just doesn't "feel" right. Almost like wearing a cond...ah...never mind.

When rushing a project, the one thing you have to keep in mind. EVERYTHING has to go perfect, or you're spending time sanding when you should be buffing.

CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN is the word to remember. You can't get the base too clean prior to spraying the clear and EVERYTHING in the base will show through even better, when covered by a good clear coat. Everything, bad and good!

 

[Macguyver]

I fixed that with some fresh base but it likely didn't outgas enough since the new clear went to instant 'alligator skin" the moment it hit it.

Sounds like the paint was outside of it's recoat window, but not into it's topcoat window yet. Bummer.

I wish I were closer, we could have them done in a jiff with the two of us working on them.

Keep at it, and if I may make a suggestion, heat the parts once base coated with a space heater to bake them a bit to get them solvent free before putting another coat on them. When time is not an issue, I prefer to heat parts for a half hour between coats when using base/clear just to make sure. Followed up with a light scuff with a fine sanding sponge if necessary, then another coat of base.

Keep at it Spyug, just imagine the sense of accomplishment when you are done!

 

[Guest]

Was that the show at the International Center in Mississauga? What'd you think of it? The only thing that really impressed me was this one off custom I saw. His ingenuity put some $50,000 bikes to shame.

Paul

 

[skitta]

Hang in there Spyug! I know your hard work is very much appreciated! As for comparing your work to those at the bike show, don't do that Everyone can't be painters.

 

[posplayr]

All I can suggest is to take your time. Check the gun before spraying the part and then be nice an deliberate.

On my cheap HF gun, the paint would sometimes come out of a small vent hole at the top of the gravity feed cup. I wrapped a couple of flat rubber bands over the top to prevent drips (one could break so 2 adds extra security).

Once you have the base down ; I make sure to get plenty of clear so they you have plenty of material to work with. Start in the hard to get areas, and finish on the top when it needs to be glossy.

 

[ukilme]

I hear you with the paint kicking your ass. I am painting my tank as well and almost done with it. I just laid the silver racing stripes and started to remove the tape. Well, it lefted the paint right between the two racing stripes. I know what I did-used a heat gun to long with water based paint-it's a no-no. Luckly, it is in between the racing stripes. Sand down and lay more paint.

As far as, clear, I agree with posplayr, lay on another layer of clear. The clear I use says 2-3 wet coats. I lay four as I know I will 'wet' sand most of it off. I also don't really wet sand. I will sand with 2000 right off the bat and dry sand it. I find I can see better as the orange peel is going. However, after a few pass I will spray the 'item' ansd wipe it down. You do use more sand paper but I feel I see more.

That band idea is a good idea as well. I may try it tomorrow as I am clearing it.

 

[tkent02]

Are you guys worried about drips actually holding the gun over the tank?
Why?

Guns will drip, that's what they do. Don't hold it over the pieces you are painting.

 

[ukilme]

Are you guys worried about drips actually holding the gun over the tank?
Why?

Guns will drip, that's what they do. Don't hold it over the pieces you are painting.

For the most part you try not to but it depends on how you have it setup. Hanging or on a stand.

 

[posplayr]

Are you guys worried about drips actually holding the gun over the tank?
Why?

Guns will drip, that's what they do. Don't hold it over the pieces you are painting.

When using a little more movement that nessesary, I have had a couple drops come out the top. Also if the top of the cut pops off it will ruin your day.

 

[spyug]

Thanks for all the input folks. Much appreciated.

I've been hunting up Youtube videos to see if I can shed any light on my technique and I think I may have "sussed" my main problem....the runs.

I had always understood that for the shine, clear has to go on "wet". Putting it on wet of course is difficult as too much paint and its going to run like a river......dooh! I also tend to paint from the top down which likely doesn't help.

One video makes it clear ( no pun intended) that you need the first coat to be light and allow it to tack up say for 5 minutes or so. You should also paint from the bottom up. I will now be trying these techniques.

The base coats ( 2 tanks now) were done last evening and I am going to allow drying to continue until tomorrow at least before shooting the clear.
Hopefully this time I'll get it.

Fingers crossed and wish me luck folks.

cheers,
spyug

 

[posplayr]

Thanks for all the input folks. Much appreciated.

I've been hunting up Youtube videos to see if I can shed any light on my technique and I think I may have "sussed" my main problem....the runs.

I had always understood that for the shine, clear has to go on "wet". Putting it on wet of course is difficult as too much paint and its going to run like a river......dooh! I also tend to paint from the top down which likely doesn't help.

One video makes it clear ( no pun intended) that you need the first coat to be light and allow it to tack up say for 5 minutes or so. You should also paint from the bottom up. I will now be trying these techniques.

The base coats ( 2 tanks now) were done last evening and I am going to allow drying to continue until tomorrow at least before shooting the clear.
Hopefully this time I'll get it.

Fingers crossed and wish me luck folks.

cheers,
spyug

One way to get the hand of it is to take a spray can and an old beer can (i can send one if you dont have any ).

Get a peice of scrap metal to practice on.

Spray and area, then do a quick spray onto the beer can. When it gets tacky (put your finger into the paint on the can) then put on another coat. If it smears wait longer. The tacky paint helps hold on the new coat. Too much wet paint and it will run.

If you are running at all you are probably putting about twice too much/ to fast. Use thinner coats, or get a smaller tip and wait longer between.

I'm not an expert but I move from the top down on the final coat to lessen overspray.

 

[ukilme]

You can also clear an old helmet and practice cutting. Also, I usually wait for a period of time before cutting even longer then the tech sheet would say. I have burned clear a few times not waiting.

If you are going to practice with scrap metal, shoot your tack coat but when shooting the wet coat go at a pace of 3 feet every second. Someone told me this and it worked for me and I go top to bottom as well.

 

[nvr2old]

If you're going to rub the finish out, there's no need to get the clear coats so wet you're going to chance running it. Believe me, it's much easier to sand a finish that's not so wet, as runs that dig in and leave trails. Just spray it a little drier. 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, rub and finish. If you're not going to rub it out, then sure, you want as smooth a finish as you can get comfortably. Oh, tie a clean rag around the top of your cup. If it leaks, the rag will catch it no problem.

 

[spyug]

Well the tanks have been re base coated and they are calling for sunny weather into the 70's so I'm playing hooky this afternoon and will try my hand at clearing once again.

I must admit I am nervous at this point but I think I have a better understanding of the 'right" way to do it now.

I am going to super clean everything again and will make sure everything is up to temperature and the gun is tripple checked before I shoot.

With a bit of "self made"luck I should have pics to show later.

Keep your fingeres crossed for me.

Thanks all for the usual great support and encouragement, I'd have chucked it in but for you guys and gals.

Cheers,
spyug

 

[tkent02]

If you're going to rub the finish out, there's no need to get the clear coats so wet you're going to chance running it.

Absolutely true. The surface texture will be removed, it does not matter if it is smooth.

600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, rub and finish.

Why the 600, 800, 1000, 1500? It only takes a few minutes using only 2000.
Anything less than 1500 is doing damage.

Oh, tie a clean rag around the top of your cup. If it leaks, the rag will catch it no problem.

Better yet, don't hold the gun over the tank, if you have to for some reason stop first and get a rag to catch anything.

 

[jwhelan65]

You mentioned aligator looking finish??? how was the humidity when you did it? It can greatly effect how any paint sets up....

 

[ukilme]

Have fun. I am shooting my clear today as well in Ottawa. Damn, it sticks to high heaven....yes, I am wearing a mask.

 

[posplayr]

If you're going to rub the finish out, there's no need to get the clear coats so wet you're going to chance running it. Believe me, it's much easier to sand a finish that's not so wet, as runs that dig in and leave trails. Just spray it a little drier. 600, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, rub and finish. If you're not going to rub it out, then sure, you want as smooth a finish as you can get comfortably. Oh, tie a clean rag around the top of your cup. If it leaks, the rag will catch it no problem.

I always find it harder to clean up a poor finish with sanding, than if I would have done a nicer job with the final coat. Granted final wet sanding will get rid of alot of poor spray work, but best to lay own a reasonable finish in the first place.

I get the feeling Sprug has too large of a tip on his gun and is hosing on the material in a cool environment with a slow catalyst. When I did my ED in the middle of summer with temps in my booth between 80-90 I had to really try to get anything to run. I had a lot of glossy finishes .

Later when I did two bikes recently in Gloss Black and was very really careful, I still got sags well after I sprayed when shooting in cool weather (60 deg ) with the same accelerant(it was not drying fast enough).

Without being there, I think the main thing Sprug needs to concentrate on is getting a descent finish even with a little orange peel that doesn't run. Weather it is his gun, technique or material I don't know. But if he experiments( I changed from practices), maybe he can find a combination that works.