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pilot jet plugs.

  • Thread starter Thread starter mistertoadie
  • Start date Start date
M

mistertoadie

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Got my 1100e all together and she starts and runs great on choke, but will not take throttle. Took the bowls off and slides out and called dyno jet and tech said pilot jets were probably too small or plugged. I said the pilot jets under the float bowl adjacent to the mainjets under the rubber plugs right? He says, there should be no rubber plugs. The pics I have of these carbs all show plugs over the pilot jets and these have them as well, but he says there should be NO plugs. What's up??? HELP!!!!!
 
Every BS carb i have seen has the plugs there, "techs" can be wrong.
 
They MUST have the rubber plugs in them. These prevent the pilot circuit from pulling fuel unmetered from the float bowls. The pilot circuit draws its fuel thru the main jet (which is part of the reason that CV carbs should be tuned from the Main down, unlike mechanical carbs that most people tune from the pilot up.) The bike will idle fine without the plugs, it may even blip under no load, but, having forgotten to put them back in myself, i can tell you it wont run under load without the plugs.
 
Well, the plugs were in there when I disassembled them, though 2 seemed loose.
When I drape a towel over the carb throats the bike will take throttle, which tells me it's lean? Should I lower the clips on the needle?
I hate workin on carbs, which is why I am clueless about them, and vice versa, I want to learn to do this myself, mostly because I just dropped $500 on that 900F and can't afford to pay someone, but also because I should learn this stuff anyway. Any guidance would be appreciated.
 
if the airbox isnt on there they will be wayyy lean unless jetted for that
 
mistertoadie said:
Well, the plugs were in there when I disassembled them, though 2 seemed loose.
When I drape a towel over the carb throats the bike will take throttle, which tells me it's lean? Should I lower the clips on the needle?
I hate workin on carbs, which is why I am clueless about them, and vice versa, I want to learn to do this myself, mostly because I just dropped $500 on that 900F and can't afford to pay someone, but also because I should learn this stuff anyway. Any guidance would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
When i did my DJ kit, i followed the advice of a wise and sage old timer:D Blowerbike basicly talked me thru the testing to see what worked best. I found that with the jet kit installed, the bike would run down the road with NO filters, NO baffle, and ran strong as hell. The mains were right, so i adjusted my needles accordingly. It takes some trial and error to find "just right" for your application, but here's what I ended up with, and i still play with them from time to time, so keep that in mind as well.

Main DJ138
Needle 3.5 clip from the bottom
Pilot Stock 45, roughly 3 turns out on the screw
Air Correction jet Currently 150, will be bumping up to 170 as my pilot circuit is rich

Also, a GOOD SYNC is KEY to tuning. If your bike isnt synced well, you'll chase after ghosts, and then when you get it synced, they'll rear thier heads again. Pods and a pipe are a PITA. But, if you're patient, you can do it.
 
Thanks Kid, to get to 3.5 on the needle you slip a thin washer in there? It seems to me if I can get it to take throttle by richening it up via restricting airflow, I should be able to get it there mechanically, jetting wise.
 
Thanks CafeKid, this has been discussed before, & I said the plugs had to be there. I remembered years ago, the plugs had been left out of a GS1000E & the bike would start & run fine till you started to take off, at that time the thing would fall on it's face & die. A couple of others, here, said sometiing else was wrong, those plugs wouldn't affect how the bike ran. Made me feel kind of bad cause nobody agreed with me. Figured maybe I had forgot, after all it's been 25+ yrs. ago. Now someone tells me I did remember correctly. Thanks, now there's at least 2 of us.
 
I've got the DJ138 mains in there, the clips are in the 3rd slot from the top. Running a brand new V&H street meg unmollested.
 
mistertoadie said:
I've got the DJ138 mains in there, the clips are in the 3rd slot from the top. Running a brand new V&H street meg unmollested.
Click to expand...
Move the needle clips to the third from the bottom. See if thats too rich. If its a touch boggy, then install another washer the same size as the DJ washer above the clip. that will slot it to 3.5 from the bottom. Thats where i ended up. You might even end up 4 from the bottom. Also, i found the best test was running the bike in 2nd, roll on from closed at 2k RPM to WOT smoothly. Dont jerk it open. The bike should pull with NO hesitation or stumbles from 2K to redline.
 
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4 from the bottom is 3 from the top, where they are now. Here's a stupid question, when you turn a screw 1 turn, is that 360 degrees? Thinkin for some silly reason it may be 180. :oops:
 
mistertoadie said:
4 from the bottom is 3 from the top, where they are now. Here's a stupid question, when you turn a screw 1 turn, is that 360 degrees? Thinkin for some silly reason it may be 180. :oops:
Click to expand...
No. One turn is 360 degrees. Make a little mark on the edge of the carb body's screw hole, and when the blade comes full turn back to that mark, thats one turn. 180 would be a half turn :p You know, you're not the first person to say that 3 from the bottom is 4 from the top. Its not so on my DynoJets. I have SEVEN slots. 4 is the dead middle, with 3 slots above and below... I actually had to check it once becasue someone told me 3 from the top on their needles was 3 from the bottom as well. :confused: Do yours have 7 slots? Sorry this is what happens to my brain when someone tries to make me convert metric to SAE on the fly, as ive been doing today. My brain just cant do it...LOL
 
:(freakin thing is drivin me nuts. Now it won't start at all. I've gotta get up at 2am to go to work, and the battery needs to recharge. Back at it tomorrow.
 
You need to take a deep breath, step away, and slow down. First, you cant do two things at once. If you do, you have no idea which had what effect, if any, on the performance. Start from a level playing field. With the jet kit installed as per instructions, (did you drill the slides? did you install the clips and needles in the slide correctly? Start the screws at 2.5 turns out?? etc) and then work from there.
 
just stopped by the 'puter en route from shower to bed.:p
The kit was installed by the suzuki dealer. The lift holes next to the needle holes on the slide were drilled by the dealer. I slid a bit through to be sure. The idle screws are out 2.5 turns, the clips were 3 from the top. I dropped them to 4 from the top and it wouldn't start. full choke it would stutter like it was trying to fire on every rev. but wouldn't catch. Dynojet trouble shooting states that if the bike idles but won't accept throttle above idle, to RAISE the clips to 2nd from top. Tried that too. No start, but the bat. was wearing down and the plugs should be checked so i'm goin to bed. Meanwhile that darn 900F is running like a swiss watch. Looks like that's goin on the road first. Thanks for the help so far Josh.
Rich.
 
Does it idle on it's own after choke? Your needles aren't in use when it's idleing. Were the carbs cleaned before the jet kit was installed? And by cleaned I mean dipped? New orings? Have you checked the float bowl heights? What intake filter(s) are you using...K&N's? Is the engine stock other than the pipe/jet kit?

As stated, the pilot plugs need to be in there. The pilot draws from the main. There is a passageway between the main and pilot....and if it's clogged, guess what?
 
TheCafeKid said:
They MUST have the rubber plugs in them. These prevent the pilot circuit from pulling fuel unmetered from the float bowls.
Click to expand...
Even worse, when the airflow demands fuel through the main jets, fuel can also be sucked in through the passage that is now uncovered by the lack of a rubber plug. Talk about jetting nightmares. :eek:


TheCafeKid said:
... i can tell you it wont run under load without the plugs.
Click to expand...
That is because it can now draw fuel through an unmetered port, as well as the main jet, making the mixture VERY rich.

.
 
renobruce said:
Does it idle on it's own after choke? Your needles aren't in use when it's idleing. Were the carbs cleaned before the jet kit was installed? And by cleaned I mean dipped? New orings? Have you checked the float bowl heights? What intake filter(s) are you using...K&N's? Is the engine stock other than the pipe/jet kit?

As stated, the pilot plugs need to be in there. The pilot draws from the main. There is a passageway between the main and pilot....and if it's clogged, guess what?
Click to expand...

The pilot plugs are in. I'm using K&N pods. carbs were cleaned and rebuilt by suzuki shop. stock bore and cams.
 
just got home. In the garage now, just changed plugs. Gonna raise the needles to the fourth groove from top.
 
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