piston ring questions

[mighty13d]

I have my engine partially torn apart on my 850 and I didn't know if I should replace the piston rings or not. They aren't bad, but while I have it apart it wouldn't be difficult to swap them. I would really hate to have to tear it back apart anytime soon without a darn good reason!

If I did replace them, should I order OEM rings or not? If OEM, does the "set" on sites like bikebandit include rings for all 4 pistons, or just one piston's set of rings? It doesn't really tell on any sites I have checked out. If aftermarket rings, who should I order them from?

 

[Nessism]

I don't think there are any aftermarket rings available so cross that off. Suzuki sells rings in single piston sets - about $28 per piston.

Regarding whether or not you should replace them, I'd do it unless the rings have less than 10k miles on them, or more than 50k in which case I'd measure first to see if there is bore wear.

Oh, and have the cylinder honed before installing the new rings. Bottle brush hones work best for honing used cylinders since they will conform to the cylinder even if there is wear.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[silverhorse47]

There is no real answer to this question. If you aren't in practice, don't have the tools, or aren't really clear about all the issues at stake in replacing 'just the rings', take the block and pistons to an experienced machinist, along with your engines specs, and have it measured. Then follow their advice.
People get away with all kinds of things with engines and it depends on your philosophy whether you choose to travel down the guaranteed way, or take your chances. At least with a skilled experienced machinist your chances are increased.
S.

 

[mighty13d]

There is no real answer to this question. If you aren't in practice, don't have the tools, or aren't really clear about all the issues at stake in replacing 'just the rings', take the block and pistons to an experienced machinist, along with your engines specs, and have it measured. Then follow their advice.
People get away with all kinds of things with engines and it depends on your philosophy whether you choose to travel down the guaranteed way, or take your chances. At least with a skilled experienced machinist your chances are increased.
S.

There is "real" answers to my questions. I already got them also. I DO know what I'm doing since I have actually rebuilt a few v-8s. And in saying that I DO have the tools and I am pretty clear in what I have asked. Thank you for weighing in with absolutely ZERO useful information.

 

[tas850g]

Mighty,

Did you go to the bike swap meet last weekend in Augusta?

 

[mighty13d]

Mighty,

Did you go to the bike swap meet last weekend in Augusta?

no, I was at a wedding

 

[silverhorse47]

You are most welcome! Anytime.
S.

 

[argonsagas]

Originally Posted by silverhorse47
There is no real answer to this question. If you aren't in practice, don't have the tools, or aren't really clear about all the issues at stake in replacing 'just the rings', take the block and pistons to an experienced machinist, along with your engines specs, and have it measured. Then follow their advice.
People get away with all kinds of things with engines and it depends on your philosophy whether you choose to travel down the guaranteed way, or take your chances. At least with a skilled experienced machinist your chances are increased.
S.

There is "real" answers to my questions. I already got them also. I DO know what I'm doing since I have actually rebuilt a few v-8s. And in saying that I DO have the tools and I am pretty clear in what I have asked. Thank you for weighing in with absolutely ZERO useful information.

Mighty, when you seek technical advice on an open forum, you get the best of what people know. Their responses may not be exactly what you wish to see, but if you respond with sarcasm then others will see it, and on this forum many knowledgeable members who read your responses tend to show you the amount of respect they feel you deserve.

You may not see anything on the screen, but that will mostly be because that is the amount of respect they are showing you.

.

 

[mighty13d]

Mighty, when you seek technical advice on an open forum, you get the best of what people know. Their responses may not be exactly what you wish to see, but if you respond with sarcasm then others will see it, and on this forum many knowledgeable members who read your responses tend to show you the amount of respect they feel you deserve.

You may not see anything on the screen, but that will mostly be because that is the amount of respect they are showing you.

.

This site usually does provide the very best information that can be had anywhere from an extensive knowledge base. Asking someone what their background in engine rebuilding is, can be a very helpful question in judging what they are capable of. I was asking what seemed like a simple question and Nessism answered me prettily easily. I'm sorry that I didn't have the restraint to not call out the guy who only threw out crap. Why weigh in at all if you can't be constructive???

 

[mighty13d]

I don't think there are any aftermarket rings available so cross that off. Suzuki sells rings in single piston sets - about $28 per piston.

Regarding whether or not you should replace them, I'd do it unless the rings have less than 10k miles on them, or more than 50k in which case I'd measure first to see if there is bore wear.

Oh, and have the cylinder honed before installing the new rings. Bottle brush hones work best for honing used cylinders since they will conform to the cylinder even if there is wear.

Hope this helps and good luck.

and sorry to not have thanked you sooner Nessism for your answer. You know you're one of the most helpful people on here.

 

[silverhorse47]

I have my engine partially torn apart on my 850 and I didn't know if I should replace the piston rings or not. They aren't bad, but while I have it apart it wouldn't be difficult to swap them. I would really hate to have to tear it back apart anytime soon without a darn good reason!


->So sorry to have misunderstood your problem.

I somehow got the impression that you were saying you didn't know if you should replace your rings or not. Thanks to your later post I know clearly understand that you have rebuilt watercooled V8s. I hear that you have both the skill and tools to do your own measuring and reach your own conclusions.

I don't know how I came to think that someone who had just clearly stated that they didn't know whether to replace their rings would perhaps find an opinion regarding how to determine an answer to that question useful.

I do apologize if you felt I was underestimating you in any way. Certainly no slight was intended.

Your comments, on the other hand, clearly DO intend insult. They also seem totally overblown. This is a nice forum where lots of people give and get help. There is nothing to be gained by directing your anger at other people, and I'd like you to stop directing yours at me.

S.

 

[argonsagas]

OK...apologies offered by all....


Now that that is taken care of, lets drop the gloves, get our hands "muffed-up", and come out riding....

:lol:

 

[hampshirehog]

I seem to remember that Matchless found some Fiat rings that were identical and a lot cheaper. There's a post on here somewhere but I'm blowed if I can find it.

 

[knotzilla]

Argonsagas, Are they Hippo Hands on your bars? Do you find that they do a good job at keeping your hands warm? Thanks Ted

 

[mike-s]

Be opportunistic & measure the ring gap (take a ring off a piston, put it in the corresponding bore by itself at various points, does the gap stay within spec the entire time? but from what you say you probably well adept at this). Personally if i was pulling the engine down for other reasons and figured i'd check the rings and bore "while i was there".

If the bore wasn't too sloppy & due for a re-bore, etc, i would consider replacing the rings if at any point the end gap went over halfway between minimum & maximum spec. If so, while you've got it apart, replace it.

Personally, my bike had 44 thousand km when i tore down the top end to replace a burnt out valve. Ring wise, everything seemed in spec but as i had it apart that was a good enough excuse for me to replace them anyway. And in a side by side comparison the old rings were noticeably thinner than the new ones i replaced them with.

 

[mighty13d]

Now that that is taken care of, lets drop the gloves, get our hands "muffed-up", and come out riding....

:lol:

It's WAY too cold to be going out riding yet! There is patches of ice everywhere and a lot of sand too. lmao Plus my bike is in my enclosed front porch and the roof leaks out there. So, since we have had fairly mild weather off and on my bike is covered in ice along with my snow blower and everything else out there!

Be opportunistic & measure the ring gap (take a ring off a piston, put it in the corresponding bore by itself at various points, does the gap stay within spec the entire time? but from what you say you probably well adept at this). Personally if i was pulling the engine down for other reasons and figured i'd check the rings and bore "while i was there".

If the bore wasn't too sloppy & due for a re-bore, etc, i would consider replacing the rings if at any point the end gap went over halfway between minimum & maximum spec. If so, while you've got it apart, replace it.

Personally, my bike had 44 thousand km when i tore down the top end to replace a burnt out valve. Ring wise, everything seemed in spec but as i had it apart that was a good enough excuse for me to replace them anyway. And in a side by side comparison the old rings were noticeably thinner than the new ones i replaced them with.

Your last paragraph was pretty much where I'm at right now. It's not that I tore it apart to get at the rings, I just have it apart and couldn't decide if I should or not because they do not NEED to be changed. They are still within specs. The engine had just under 25k miles before being pulled. Also, I'm not the best at engine builds/re-builds, just trying to illustrate that I am able to do it.

 

[Guest]

Put new rings in it and be done with it.
Change out the valve stem seals.
Check the valve springs.
Change the base gasket and head gasket.
Measure cylinders to make sure they are in spec.
Measure ring gap when installing rings
Hone cylinders
Do a visual check of the valves and seats for pitting and wear
Check cam chain for exessive back and forth play
Did I forget anything?

 

[mike-s]

Grind the valves a little anyway for good measure?

I replaced one valve as that was obviously the weakest link, and the seats were damaged lightly, but as expected. Took a little while to get the seats ground down, even with the course paste. I still gave every seat a decent run with the suction cap on a stick thingo just to make 100% sure it was seated correctly.

Another suggestion is to check the camchain length is within spec too as back & forth play only indicates the tensioner isn't quite up to the task. The cause of that play could be the tensioner having packed it in OR the camchain has stretched way way way too much (to a point that i would consider lethal to the engine AND the rider).

 

[argonsagas]

Argonsagas, Are they Hippo Hands on your bars? Do you find that they do a good job at keeping your hands warm? Thanks Ted

No, those are definitely not Hippo Hands. They are from a photo I found, make unknown.

I bought a new pair of original Hippo Hands (NOS) a few years ago, but used them only once.

They are really quite good quality and work well, but they did not suit the pull-back on the bars I have on the GK, making hand positions awkward for me, so I chose to use mitts instead..

I just sent them off to a new home a few weeks ago.

 

[headsbikesmopars]

Mighty13D,

I feel your question was a fair one. You wanted an answer to a good question that many of us have asked ourselves manytimes over the years. You just wanted an honest answer/ opinion as do we all. I see nothing at all 'out of bounds' with what you were asking. With that said...Go with what CHEF1366 said. All good and solid info there. I agree it is down so refresh it. Much easier now than after it is back together. As always...JMHO. And I believe that is what you were asking for and not useless information. Good luck

Terry