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Plain weird behavior

glib

Forum Mentor
Past Site Supporter
I am new to the forum and have learned a bunch already but couldn't find anything quite like what I am experiencing. I am really happy to have purchased a 1983 GS1100E and an ES this month. I have wanted an ES since I rode one a few times back in 1983.

The red E runs beautifully and just need front fork seals. The ES however has some plain weird behavior. The carbs were rebuilt a year ago--the PO had a mechanic do the work but unfortunately, based on what I have read on one of the links here, he did use the rebuild kits. When I first started the bike, it idled very rough (so rough the clutch basket rattled like it was loose) and it would just bog and die when I twisted the throttle. It required a lot of choke to run at all. When I tried to ride it I could feel it was down a cylinder so I parked it and pulled the carbs. The carbs were very clean and I could see the parts from the rebuild kit inside. (How do they expect those little screens about the float valve to stay on? I found a couple had just fallen off. Terrible design). I did have to adjust the float height so I was hoping that was the problem. I got the o ring kits from Robert Barr and replaced them. They were pretty dried up. Re installed the carbs and it did exactly the same thing. Next I adjusted the valves. No change in behavior.

Especially weird part: I checked the compression and number three was down to 80. I wasn't surprised since it seemed to be down a cylinder when I tried to ride it. The others were 150. So I put some oil in #3 to do a wet test and it came up to 150. Crap, I figured I would have to tear the engine down. I talked to a local shop and the guy told me not to be so quick to tear it down. Maybe a ring was stuck and the wet test broke it loose so go home and try to start it again (which I hadn't done since the wet test). So I went home and started it and no change. Disappointed, I went in the house for a couple hours and thought about a plan of action. I went back out and tried it again and it started right up and ran smoothly. I drove it around the neighborhood and was elated that I had such great luck. A couple hours later I started it again and again it was smooth. I pulled it around to the front of the house to show it to the neighbor and turned it off. When I turned it back on it was back to running like crap again as though nothing had changed at all.

When it ran smoothly, I thought it was the compression issue being resolved. But now that it is running poorly again, it seems like it must be a carb issue. But what would affect the flow to all carbs equally--essentially turning on and off like that--not having changed anything in-between good and bad behavior?
 
When you pulled carbs,you would have been wise to thoroughly clean them (strip and dip) and not just assume they were clean enough because they appeared so. Endless posts on here regarding how important this step is.Sounds like one or more of the carbs have plugged idle circuits that occurs randomly- very annoying as you have discovered.
 
Big finger pointing at the carbs but I would try eliminate some easy things before tearing in. Try running at different fuel cock positions. Pull of the hoses and check it flows when it should and doesn't when it shouldn't. See if one or more headers are cool and if swapping ht leads shifts the coolness.
 
Forgot to add that all plugs show spark and pet cock is new. I will check the flow from different positions today. When I got it I didn't understand the "prime" position and it took some time and reading to figure out how it works but I'll check it again. Since the engine can idle normally for a short time without the tank connected if the bowls are full I would think that it would run normally until the level of the bowls drops and then starve but it just acts starved all the time. (Except of course for the few hour window when it magically ran normally).
 
I am with the others on the carbs.....whoever "rebuilt" them probably didnt fully tear them down and dip them and they are clogged. Just because something "looks clean " doesnt mean it is when it applies to carbs!!!
 
Check your spark plug wire routing. I started mine one evening in the garage and it was running on 3. I could see a spark jumping from the #4 wire to the valve cover. I replaced the plugs and shuffled the wires around and the problem vanished.

Everyone wants to blame carburetion
 
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Cut all the spark plug wires back a bit and screw the caps back on after inspecting the caps. That may take care of some intermittent problems the caps can be a problem when they get old. I would plan on a strip down and rebuild of the carburetors after replacing the kit parts with stock parts. It will never run right with a kit. They are well known for causing weird problems.
 
I will go through the carbs again before tearing the motor apart but regarding the plug wires--which would be a maintenance item on most vehicles--they are part of the coils and can't be replaced without replacing the coils, correct?
 
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Not exactly correct. Wires can be replaced, but rarely need to be, and it's not a trivial project.
 
I'd like to order the OEM Carb parts but looked on Z1 and see the same kit I am replacing. Where are they?
 
What carbs are they???? Someone with a stock pile may have the stock OEM needles and jets. Measure the throats on the engine side for what MM size they are and post up an add in the parts wanted section.

I would assume they are the originals but you never kn ow what the guy before you did..thats why I said measure them.
 
At the top youll see permanent threads known as STICKEYS...click on the second one and see if your bikes carb stats are listed.
 
Both my bikes have these carbs:

1983 1100 ED/ESD

Specs in mm.
Carb Type- Mikuni BS34SS
Bore Size-34 mm
ID# - 49380
Idle r/min - 1050 +/- 100 r/min
Fuel Level - 5.0 +/- 0.5
Float Height - 22.4 +/- 1.0
Main Jet - #112.5
Main Air Jet - 1.2
Jet Needle - 5D58
Needle Jet - X-1
Pilot Jet - #45
Bypass - 0.8, 0.8, 0.8
Pilot Outlet - 1.0
Valve Seat - 2.0
Starter Jet - #32.5
Pilot Screw - Pre-Set, Varies
Pilot Air Jet - #180
Throttle Cable Play - 0.5-1.0
 
Got the bike to idle and the exhaust temps after about two minutes were #1 115, #2 245, #3 280, #4 380.

Gonna dip the carbs.
 
Get the BS carb oring kit here and the new intake manifold orings on page 3 i think it is. remove the intake manifolds and measure the ID of the groove the oring sits in to know the size to order.

1 kit does all 4 carbs.


http://www.cycleorings.com/
 
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Sounds about as likely to be an intermittent spark as much as intermittent carburetion. Leave the carbs alone until you are 100% sure of your electrics. Crank it up under darkness and stare at things awhile. You can usually see tracing around bad wiring.
 
The intake manifold is cast into the head on this model so no need for the o rings there. I used that o ring kit on the carbs when I opened them up but I do wish I would have at least checked the needle jet. I'll check the electrics and do a quality job on the carbs (I have the original jets from the PO but a couple of them got roughed up a bit on removal) over the next week and hopefully I'll get to the bottom of this. Thanks for the input.
 
I will go through the carbs again before tearing the motor apart but regarding the plug wires--which would be a maintenance item on most vehicles--they are part of the coils and can't be replaced without replacing the coils, correct?

Correct - but if you can see a spark jumping to earth off the HT lead insulation, there's nothing stopping you slipping some plastic tubing over the leads...
If you have access to a multi meter, check the resistance of the plug caps. It's not unknown for one or more caps to have the internal resistor fail.

Check the floats when you strip the carbs too - if one has been spread a little it may be fouling the carb body which would give symptoms of intermittent starvation such as you describe.
 
Got the bike to idle and the exhaust temps after about two minutes were #1 115, #2 245, #3 280, #4 380.

Gonna dip the carbs.
Swap the ht leads on each coil over to their respective partner plugs and see if that temperature profile remains.
Probably nothing but I reckon there is only a 1 in 24 chance that four different temperatures arrange themselves in order of increasing temperature. Was it on the sidestand? :)

These are degrees F or C ?
 
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