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PO needle set up

  • Thread starter Thread starter Good Times
  • Start date Start date
G

Good Times

Guest
So I've been working through my carbs. After getting my snap ring pliers in the mail today from Z1 I was able to see how my needles are set up. I bought a DJ stage three kit to install. Upon cracking the carbs open I found 170 (non- Dyno Jet) mains with what appears to be DJ air adjuster installed and the slides drilled with DJ needles.

This is how the needles were set up and the DJ instructions. hmmmm..... Looks like it would have REALLY been running rich set up like this right?

Problem is that I don't have the stock metal washers. Anyone know what size they are? Wonder if I can get them at a hardware store or Fastenal. Or am I going to have to order some?

35A0518F-9722-4079-BD07-07C079DF4481-964-000000F03B17FB9C.jpg
 
I think you can use #2 washers to shim the needle, so they might work here also. Your PO screwed the pooch with the fat spacer in the wrong spot for sure.
 
MisterCinders said:
I think you can use #2 washers to shim the needle, so they might work here also. Your PO screwed the pooch with the fat spacer in the wrong spot for sure.
Click to expand...

You're telling me. I couldn't believe it. :eek:

Oh well, that's why I'm going through every inch of the bike.

Thanks for the advice on the #2 washers. I need to see if I can find some.

They are only $2.33 each from Suzuki. :rolleyes:

Time to go to Fastenal.
 
3mm flat washers are what you need.
If you can't find them locally, I will send you 22 of them (20 is enough to replace all four plastic spacers and 2 to lose.) for $1.00 including postage.

Eric
 
Thanks Eric. I just picked up four 3mm washers. I looked at them and thought, "those look like the perfect size."

I'm a mikuni Ninja.
 
Good Times said:
Upon cracking the carbs open I found 170 (non- Dyno Jet) mains with what appears to be DJ air adjuster installed and the slides drilled with DJ needles.

This is how the needles were set up and the DJ instructions. hmmmm..... Looks like it would have REALLY been running rich set up like this right?
Click to expand...
How did that bike run at all? :-k

Those 170 jets should be the pilot air jets, and installed in the intake throats, in the 8 o'clock position. The air adjusters should have been put in the main air jets at the 4 o'clock position.

Stock mains are 115. I can't imagine what mods could be done to justify a 170, instead.

Moving the thick nylon spacer to the bottom of the clip is good for raising the stock needle about two notches. The effect of raising a DJ needle that much, ...

Let's just say that anyone following that bike within a mile or so, would have watery eyes, due to the over-rich fumes. :o

.
 
Doesnt look like any DJ needle I have seen. Usually they taper to a point.
 
You only need one washer between the clip and the spring.

Looks like the larger one on the left would be a better choice.

The second one isn't going to hurt anything, it's just more preload on the spring.

.
 
gearhead13 said:
Doesnt look like any DJ needle I have seen. Usually they taper to a point.
Click to expand...

That's what came in the kit for the GS850G.

Steve said:
You only need one washer between the clip and the spring.

Looks like the larger one on the left would be a better choice.

The second one isn't going to hurt anything, it's just more preload on the spring.

.
Click to expand...

Just going by the diagram. Spring - Stock washer - DJ washer - DJ Clip - Stock Spacer

We'll see how it goes. :)
 
Good Times said:
Just going by the diagram. Spring - Stock washer - DJ washer - DJ Clip - Stock Spacer

We'll see how it goes. :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I saw that, it's just a common mis-conception when we talk about "shimming the needles" that guys will put shims between the spring and the clip to raise the needle. All that does is compress the spring. To raise the needle, you need to move the clip down, which is possible on the DJ needles. On the stock needles, you need to reduce the thickness of the nylon spacer by replacing it with a couple of washers (similar to the one you have under the clip) above the clip.

As I mentioned before, the second washer is not going to hurt anything.

.
 
Steve said:
Yeah, I saw that, it's just a common mis-conception when we talk about "shimming the needles" that guys will put shims between the spring and the clip to raise the needle. All that does is compress the spring. To raise the needle, you need to move the clip down, which is possible on the DJ needles. On the stock needles, you need to reduce the thickness of the nylon spacer by replacing it with a couple of washers (similar to the one you have under the clip) above the clip.

As I mentioned before, the second washer is not going to hurt anything.

.
Click to expand...

Appreciate your eye for detail and willingness to help.
 
Ok fellas. I've got the bike together and running. Carbs cleaned, new o-rings, synced. Rode a little today to see how she would run.

As a reminder here's my set up:

82 850 GL
K&N Pods
V&H 4 into 1
DJ Stage 3 Kit
Clips on the third grove from the top of the needle
Needles 4 1/2 turns out per the DJ instructions


The bike runs great. It is smooth and pulls all the way to redline. No stumble, no flat spots. I love it.

I am getting some backfire through one or more carbs (can't really tell which one or ones) when I'm running somewhere around 3000 or 4000. It's not constant but intermittent. I get a little hesitation with the popping.

I also get popping on decel, but am fully aware that I need new exhaust gaskets and that my V&H isn't air tight at the collector. Easy enough fix.

I have searched and seen a thread on the "cough" "popping" "backfire" on a lot of bikes. I don't think I've seen anything that was a fix yet. I've thought about setting my needles back down one turn to 3 1/2 turns out rather than 4 1/2 and see what that does.

Anyone had this and made it disappear or improve it?
 
Popping on decel is a lean mixture, no air leaks? new carb boot o-rings? Try a bigger pilot jet or richen the mixture screws some. Have the valves been adjusted?
 
Most likely plug chops will indicate a cylinder or two that may need a bit of fine tuning. All four cylinders will not run the same with the same carb settings. This is why the serious racers put a wideband O2 sensor in every pipe rather than in the collector.
 
gearhead13 said:
Popping on decel is a lean mixture, no air leaks? new carb boot o-rings? Try a bigger pilot jet or richen the mixture screws some. Have the valves been adjusted?
Click to expand...

Yes. New boots and orings. It popped before on decel and the mixture was crazy rich. Take a look at how the needles were set up at the beginning of this thread. That along with 170 mains was way rich.

koolaid_kid said:
Most likely plug chops will indicate a cylinder or two that may need a bit of fine tuning. All four cylinders will not run the same with the same carb settings. This is why the serious racers put a wideband O2 sensor in every pipe rather than in the collector.
Click to expand...

Haven't done a plug chop yet. It's either that or drill and tap some sensor holes in my header. No popping on decel then right? ;)
 
Good Times said:
Haven't done a plug chop yet. It's either that or drill and tap some sensor holes in my header. No popping on decel then right? ;)
Click to expand...
Well, there are no guarantees on anything, including life. But it will allow you to set every cylinder the same. For similar results without the drilling, reading plugs should get you close. Besides, popping indicates that you have a hot bike, right? ;)
 
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