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Priming carbs, spinning starter and won't shift

  • Thread starter Thread starter TheDuke
  • Start date Start date
T

TheDuke

Guest
My first problem is getting gas. Got the bike back together, we had her going for a few seconds on starting fluid and it sounded good, but we aren't getting fuel into the carbs. We are testing her on a bag and my neighbor thought using the tank would be more effective because of the extra fuel pushing down and forcing its way into the carbs. Does that sound right? Also, on the bag we obviously didn't have the vacuum hose attached, would that cause the issue? In any case, how do I go about getting the carbs primed?

Also, we were working with kick start only since the starter motor spins but doesn't turn the motor over. Any ideas? I replaced the stator rotor during the rebuild and don't know if that could be the culprit.

Lastly, it is in neutral at the moment and we can't get her to shift. We've tried spinning the wheel at the same time to no avail. The motor was dry for a while so we thought that running it a bit might solve the problem. Am I wrong? Does she just need a little more TLC?
 
TheDuke said:
My first problem is getting gas. Got the bike back together, we had her going for a few seconds on starting fluid and it sounded good, but we aren't getting fuel into the carbs. We are testing her on a bag and my neighbor thought using the tank would be more effective because of the extra fuel pushing down and forcing its way into the carbs. Does that sound right? Also, on the bag we obviously didn't have the vacuum hose attached, would that cause the issue? In any case, how do I go about getting the carbs primed?
Click to expand...
The tank will only work 'better' at pushing the fuel into the carbs if your bag is held lower than the fuel level in the tank. The higher you hold your bag, the more force there is on the fuel. In general, any external source of fuel should be at about the same height as the fuel in the tank.

Obviously you did not have a vacuum hose connected to the bag, but did you have the vacuum port on #3 carb blocked? If not, there is a MASSIVE air leak that will certainly not help the situation at all.

To prime the carbs, move the lever on the petcock toward the back. Rotate it counter-clockwise. You might want to connect a hose to a catch tank to verify that the petcock actually works before you connect the hose to your carbs and wait and wait (and wait) for something to happen.


TheDuke said:
Also, we were working with kick start only since the starter motor spins but doesn't turn the motor over. Any ideas? I replaced the stator rotor during the rebuild and don't know if that could be the culprit.
Click to expand...
OK, "stator rotor" is a bit of an oxymoron, as the stator doesn't move and the rotor does. Assuming that you changed the rotor, did you also install the starter clutch? That is the large gear that bolts on to the back of the rotor. Without that, your electric starter will not have anything to turn.


TheDuke said:
Lastly, it is in neutral at the moment and we can't get her to shift. We've tried spinning the wheel at the same time to no avail. The motor was dry for a while so we thought that running it a bit might solve the problem. Am I wrong? Does she just need a little more TLC?
Click to expand...
Did you have the clutch and/or shifter mechanism apart, too? It is easy to get them put back together incorrectly.

Depending on how long it has been since the bike was run, I would not suspect the internal bits being dry enough to prevent shifter movement, but you have not provided any clues about the history of the bike.

.
 
Steve said:
Obviously you did not have a vacuum hose connected to the bag, but did you have the vacuum port on #3 carb blocked? If not, there is a MASSIVE air leak that will certainly not help the situation at all.
Click to expand...

We did not have the vacuum port blocked, that was probably the issue. In the mean time, we mounted the tank and connected all the hoses. I will get some gas in her and see if that makes the difference.

Steve said:
OK, "stator rotor" is a bit of an oxymoron, as the stator doesn't move and the rotor does. Assuming that you changed the rotor, did you also install the starter clutch? That is the large gear that bolts on to the back of the rotor. Without that, your electric starter will not have anything to turn.
Click to expand...

I replaced the, pardon my ignorance, the piece that bolts between the magnet and the gear because of the crack you can see in the photo. All was in place before I threw it back together but I will open her up and double check.



Steve said:
Did you have the clutch and/or shifter mechanism apart, too? It is easy to get them put back together incorrectly.
Click to expand...

I did not rebuild the clutch. I did recently reinstall the clutch cable and the clutch release and tightened it to the point that there is very little play in the lever, could I have over tightened it? Could it be a clutch release adjustment issue?
 
That gear on the crankshaft should rotate one way, but not the other. Does it?

The clutch has absolutely nothing to do with shifting when the engine isn't running, it should shift just fine with or without the clutch when it is running, just close the throttle for a split second and shift. If it won't shift, something else is wrong. Hopefully it's something easy like the shift lever hitting the case or something.
 
"... starter motor spins but doesn't turn the motor over."

When you're re-inspecting the starter clutch, check that starter motor itself spins counterclockwise as you face it
 
tom203 said:
"... starter motor spins but doesn't turn the motor over."

When you're re-inspecting the starter clutch, check that starter motor itself spins counterclockwise as you face it
Click to expand...

I will take a look at that and make sure the gear spins only one direction.
 
Steve said:
To prime the carbs, move the lever on the petcock toward the back. Rotate it counter-clockwise. You might want to connect a hose to a catch tank to verify that the petcock actually works before you connect the hose to your carbs and wait and wait (and wait) for something to happen.
Click to expand...

I was told my my more knowledgeable neighbor that the carbs are air locked, we aren't getting fuel into the bowls at all. Is there a fix for this?
 
Air locked??? Find a new neighbor!!;)

Seriously, you need to use the prime function of your petcock to fill the bowls. If they still wont fill then verify you're getting gas directly from the petcock with it in prime. If not, check to see if you have enough gas in the tank. That actually would be the first check. One gallon wont cut it. If it's still a no go from the petcock then change the petcock.
 
JTGS850GL said:
Air locked??? Find a new neighbor!!;)

Seriously, you need to use the prime function of your petcock to fill the bowls. If they still wont fill then verify you're getting gas directly from the petcock with it in prime. If not, check to see if you have enough gas in the tank. That actually would be the first check. One gallon wont cut it. If it's still a no go from the petcock then change the petcock.
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I will try that tomorrow hopefully. However, we were using a bottle to test it the first go around so there was no petcock involved, just a straight shot from the bottle (set at about 4' above the ground) to the carbs. Still, the bowls were dry. What could cause that?
 
TheDuke said:
I will try that tomorrow hopefully. However, we were using a bottle to test it the first go around so there was no petcock involved, just a straight shot from the bottle (set at about 4' above the ground) to the carbs. Still, the bowls were dry. What could cause that?
Click to expand...

Did you have a vent to let air into the bottle so fuel could come out?

If you did a float needle valve must be stuck shut. Odd for all four to be stuck unless they were put in wrong somehow.

could be a kinked or clogged line but that would have been obvious to you.
 
A column of gas 4' high and no fuel in the float bowls? What did you do? Did you plug all the vent lines? I can't imagine that all 4 floats were stuck closed. How did you know that no fuel is going into the carbs? Did you unscrew the drain screws and have nothing come out? This is not making sense.
 
If you capped the vents ( nipples on carbs 2 and 4 ) then your not allowing air to escape the bowls and fuel to take its place....thats why they are VENTS. Carbs need a vent to atmospheric pressure to work both for filling AND for the fuel to get sucked up by the pilot and main circuts while running.

Twist the petcock lever counter clockwise till the lever is pointing at the PRIme position and leave it there a good minute. Then full choke and do not twist the grip...HANDS OFF THE GRIP. Once it starts twist the lever back to the down ON position.

Take a ratchet and tap all the bowls a few times just to be sure the floats arent stuck anyways...cant hurt anything.
 
I did disassemble the carbs and rebuild them for the 1st time. It is possible that I did make a mistake somewhere, although I used BikeCliff's guide. If it comes down to taking them apart and putting them back together, what should I be on the lookout for?

When we tried to get her started two nights ago, none of the vents were blocked, the bottle was vented, and the hose wasn't kinked. I haven't tried it at all with the tank yet, but it is mounted and the petcock is now connected, I suppose that is the next step.
 
JTGS850GL said:
A column of gas 4' high and no fuel in the float bowls? What did you do? Did you plug all the vent lines? I can't imagine that all 4 floats were stuck closed. How did you know that no fuel is going into the carbs? Did you unscrew the drain screws and have nothing come out? This is not making sense.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we pulled the drain screws to check and they were dry. I agree, it isn't making much sense, so it seems likely that I've missed a step and just have to figure it out.
 
You need to open them back up and see if the floats are installed the right way and check that when you move the floats that the float needles do in fact open and close and dont hang up. Be sure floats dont rub on the gaskets too.
 
TheDuke said:
I did not rebuild the clutch. I did recently reinstall the clutch cable and the clutch release and tightened it to the point that there is very little play in the lever, could I have over tightened it? Could it be a clutch release adjustment issue?
Click to expand...

What about the shifting issue. Could it be caused by an adjustment issue on the clutch release? It has a locking nut and screw adjuster and I just turned the screw until it stopped and locked it down with the nut. That may have been the wrong way to go about it.
 
TheDuke said:
What about the shifting issue. Could it be caused by an adjustment issue on the clutch release? It has a locking nut and screw adjuster and I just turned the screw until it stopped and locked it down with the nut. That may have been the wrong way to go about it.
Click to expand...

Sorry to be harsh, but you need to put your tools down and do some reading. You have multiple problems all of which are minor and solvable. Find out more about your bike before dicking with it. :|
 
Last edited:
allojohn said:
Sorry to harsh, but you need to put your tools down and do some reading. You have multiple problems all of which are minor and solvable. Find our more about your bike before dicking with it. :|
Click to expand...

I know, I know. Although, I've spent quite a bit of time flipping through the Clymer and service manual but not everything is spelled out as clearly as a novice needs. And I've also had a hell of a time finding clear answers to some of these issues, maybe because I don't know the right question to ask. When I run into a snag I come here for advice from experienced folks.
 
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