Problems starting my GS425

[ikantbreave]

So, I have checked the valve clearances ( 3 of 4 are .06 or more, the 4th prolly right at .03), the points timing is as close as I have been able to get it to keep it running, good clean carbs (properly dipped and o-ring'd, couple of times for good measure), electrical all gone through when I was in process of rebuild (including NOS harness), new to me starter motor as other one went kaput, plenty of spark at the plugs. I end up having to push start my bike every morning out of the garage and MOST days can start it with start button after work on second try. Is this still a points issue? Would that last dagnabit tight cylinder cause this? Is it something electrical that I'm not even thinking of?? BTW, I did shave off the light stop on my left switch so I can turn off all the lights when I want to, especially at fire-up.

 

[tom203]

Best to ensure good battery- at morning startup, you need to make sure that battery voltage is not dropping too much. Maybe you have a small current draw somewhere that's draining battery at night. Check when you park it in evening and then in morning before you fire it up.

 

[Guest]

How are your grounds Brion? Do you have the big fat ground wire from the engine case to a good frame ground or direct to battery negative? Is it a good clean ground connection both ends? If that's not good your engine may not be grounding well, and that's where the starter motor gets it's ground from...

 

[tkent02]

the points timing is as close as I have been able to get it to keep it running,

This makes no sense... Are the points in good condition and adjusted properly or are they not?

I end up having to push start my bike every morning out of the garage and MOST days can start it with start button after work on second try.

It won't crank long/fast enough to start? Cranks a long time but won't run anyway? Only cranks a few seconds? Cranks fine but won't spark while it's cranking?
Won't fire at all? Fires but won't stay running?
It's really hard to guess without some information?

 

[ikantbreave]

Best to ensure good battery- at morning startup, you need to make sure that battery voltage is not dropping too much. Maybe you have a small current draw somewhere that's draining battery at night. Check when you park it in evening and then in morning before you fire it up.

Will do. Thanks.

How are your grounds Brion? Do you have the big fat ground wire from the engine case to a good frame ground or direct to battery negative? Is it a good clean ground connection both ends? If that's not good your engine may not be grounding well, and that's where the starter motor gets it's ground from...

Ground is good as far as I know. I have the engine ground to the frame. I'm still going to check it. Thanks.

This makes no sense... Are the points in good condition and adjusted properly or are they not?




It won't crank long/fast enough to start? Cranks a long time but won't run anyway? Only cranks a few seconds? Cranks fine but won't spark while it's cranking?
Won't fire at all? Fires but won't stay running?
It's really hard to guess without some information?

As far as the points, I got them new, totally removed the points plate and points. I have had to fiddle with them quite a bit as I didn't (and probably still don't) fully understand how to adjust the points and once I was able to get the bike running I didn't want to fool with them any more. The bike seems to miss a bit at about 7000rpm if I push it just a little more. It runs fine up til then.

As far as cranking it, I can push the starter button and it'll just crank and crank but won't fire up. Fuel in the carb bowls, cleaned as I said, spark on the plugs, nicely oiled filter in the stock airbox. I've tried to be pretty diligent about not only doing the maintenance properly with the proper tools following the proper procedures but also using the search.

 

[tkent02]

As far as the points, I got them new, totally removed the points plate and points. I have had to fiddle with them quite a bit as I didn't (and probably still don't) fully understand how to adjust the points and once I was able to get the bike running I didn't want to fool with them any more. The bike seems to miss a bit at about 7000rpm if I push it just a little more. It runs fine up til then.

This missing at 7000 sound like the points are open too far, not enough dwell, there's not enough time in each revolution with the points closed for the coils to charge up for the next spark. It works OK at lower RPM as there is more time during each revolution.

As far as cranking it, I can push the starter button and it'll just crank and crank but won't fire up. Fuel in the carb bowls, cleaned as I said, spark on the plugs, nicely oiled filter in the stock airbox. I've tried to be pretty diligent about not only doing the maintenance properly with the proper tools following the proper procedures but also using the search.

Much better definition of the problem, but I don't know what the answer is.
If it's sparking properly it must be a fuel thing?

 

[Redman]

....
.... I end up having to push start my bike every morning out of the garage and MOST days can start it with start button after work on second try.....
....

I always though the starter can turn engine faster than pushstarting.

SO if you say it starts better by pushstarting than by using the starter, I suspect something with the starter or battery or charging system.

Can you make any statement about charging system? Have you checked it with a voltmeter? Can you say anything about the battery? How old?

.

 

[ikantbreave]

I always though the starter can turn engine faster than pushstarting. You haven't seen me run...LOL

SO if you say it starts better by pushstarting than by using the starter, I suspect something with the starter or battery or charging system.

Can you make any statement about charging system? Have you checked it with a voltmeter? Can you say anything about the battery? How old?
Definitely going to start looking at this too because SOMETHING is up. Battery is only about eight months old and has been run just about everyday that the bike was able.
.

Thanks for the direction from all. :clap: I'll track it down soon enough.

 

[ikantbreave]

So I checked the battery with a voltmeter. 13.4 just sitting, 12.6 when I turned the kill switch to run and the key on. As I pushed the starter button it dropped to 4.5v. I know that's bad... Off to the search function I go.

 

[ikantbreave]

I have checked all my grounds and they seem to be fine. I haven't changed anything from when the bike was running fine. Could this be that the battery has gone bad? Like I said above, it's 13.6 sitting, 12.8 when the switch is on and then drops to about 4 or 5v when I push the start button.

 

[posplayr]

I have checked all my grounds and they seem to be fine. I haven't changed anything from when the bike was running fine. Could this be that the battery has gone bad? Like I said above, it's 13.6 sitting, 12.8 when the switch is on and then drops to about 4 or 5v when I push the start button.

I never try to read the current when you crank the engine. It is very much a function of how good your bad your meter is. What are the other values for the Quick Test?

Your battery seems good, what does it do at idle, 2500 and then 5000?

 

[ikantbreave]

I never try to read the current when you crank the engine. It is very much a function of how good your bad your meter is. What are the other values for the Quick Test?

Your battery seems good, what does it do at idle, 2500 and then 5000?

Well, that's my biggest problem right now. It won't start at all. As soon as I push the start button, the starter barely turns and then nothing else. The neutral light even fades out as soon as I hit the button.

 

[cowboyup3371]

Brion, your battery is too weak to do much right now. You should try to recharge your battery and ensure it is still good before doing much else.

 

[posplayr]

Brion, your battery is too weak to do much right now. You should try to recharge your battery and ensure it is still good before doing much else.

Like I said above, it's 13.6 sitting, 12.8 when the switch is on

if his battery voltage really is that high then it sounds like the starter motor is dragging.

 

[cowboyup3371]

POS, you know more about this stuff than I ever will and I don't doubt you are right; but I was responding to the fact he said his starter is barely moving and his dash lights are even dimming. As well as the fact he said that as he pressed the button his voltage dropped down to the single digits.

Either way, I hope you can work it out.

 

[posplayr]

So, I have checked the valve clearances ( 3 of 4 are .06 or more, the 4th prolly right at .03), the points timing is as close as I have been able to get it to keep it running, good clean carbs (properly dipped and o-ring'd, couple of times for good measure), electrical all gone through when I was in process of rebuild (including NOS harness), new to me starter motor as other one went kaput, plenty of spark at the plugs. I end up having to push start my bike every morning out of the garage and MOST days can start it with start button after work on second try. Is this still a points issue? Would that last dagnabit tight cylinder cause this? Is it something electrical that I'm not even thinking of?? BTW, I did shave off the light stop on my left switch so I can turn off all the lights when I want to, especially at fire-up.

I was going to suggest push starting and check the charging voltages while you have it running. If the battery is good and it still crank slowly then it sounds like something is wrong with the starter or perhaps the motor is difficult to turn over. You mentioned a new starter..... only thing else is engine.
Have you removed the plugs and cranked the engine over by the 19mm bolt on the ignition side to see how easy it turns over?

 

[posplayr]

POS, you know more about this stuff than I ever will and I don't doubt you are right; but I was responding to the fact he said his starter is barely moving and his dash lights are even dimming. As well as the fact he said that as he pressed the button his voltage dropped down to the single digits.

Either way, I hope you can work it out.

I understood that but the problem with your diagnosis is that the measured voltages indicate that the battery is OK. The ignition and lights provide a pretty reasonable load test that typically only drops the voltage about 0.5V. If the starter were dragging or the engine was hard to turn over the lights would also dim even with a good charged battery.

 

[surviverguy]

If 1)battery connections are good and 2)starter connections are good and 3)-voltage of battery drops below 10.5 volts during starting (cranking)- (7 seconds or less)- Battery is bad. That's what we call a "battery load test". Battery should be fully charged. Battery voltage should be about 12.5 VDC (engine off).

 

[posplayr]

If 1)battery connections are good and 2)starter connections are good and 3)-voltage of battery drops below 10.5 volts during starting (cranking)- (7 seconds or less)- 4) and the starter is good 5) and there is no excessive friction in the motor Then you might conclude the Battery is bad. That's what we call a "battery load test". Battery should be fully charged. Battery voltage should be about 12.5 VDC (engine off).

................

 

[surviverguy]

Take the starter and the engine out of the equation. Load test the battery with a load tester or load test it using the lights. With all the lights on and engine not running- see how many minutes it takes to draw the battery down from 12.5-12,8 (full) to 11.00 VDC. The number of minutes it takes to draw down should give an indicator of battery health/weakness/capacity.