Question for the painters

[jsandidge]

I have seen so many different methods for applying decals and clearing over them. I am a total newb to painting. I really like the results I've seen here on GSR with recent projects by Nessism and Chuck Hahn, even though they used somewhat different methods.

Even at the paint store, I received advice from 2 different painters that were different from either of the methods I've seen here. I'm using black base and 3M gold pinstripe. One guy said to put the tape directly over the base and then shoot 8 layers of clear. No sanding until the end. The other guy said to lay the base, 1 coat of clear, decals, then 3 or 4 coats of clear. Again, no sanding till the end. Seems to me I would need to work really fast with either of these methods.

So the questions here are this. Are there any drawbacks to laying the decals right onto the base? Are there any problems laying decals on unsanded clear? Does the gloss suffer from having a lower coat of clear sanded? I don't know which way to go. This is my first paint job.

 

[chuck hahn]

I used Nessisms advice and shot a coat of clear over the color then sanded it. This, as he explained, does 2 things. First it gets rid of any slight orange peel. And second, it prevents the base coat from getting ruined if you make a mistake. Thats the way I would proceed if I were you. It will be my method from now on.

Sanding the clear doesnt effect the subsequent layers gloss. It will be as glossy as if you hadnt sanded clear layer #1.

 

[jsandidge]

Thanks Chuck. That is the way I was leaning. How long should the first coat of clear cure before sanding?

 

[nvr2old]

Chuck and Ed, both are correct. With black as a base coat, you don't necessarily have to use clear coat. Clearing before the decals is the way to go if you're spraying a metallic base coat, for sure, so you don't interrupt the flakes in the paint. Spray your base coat, let it dry overnight, sand it smooth the next day with 600 grit, wet, then let it breathe for another 24 hrs. Lay your stripes, let those also breathe and gas out over night then start your clear process. Spray the first couple of coats light and dry so the clear doesn't eat into the decals, then pour on at least 3 maybe 4 coats of clear and then there should be enough material on there to move on to the sanding and polishing steps if you choose to rub it out.

 

[jsandidge]

Thanks for the tips. I think I will use a clear coat under the decals just to be safe. I tend to be a little heavy handed with sanding and buffing as I've found with my powder coating. Can I use more than 3 or 4 coats of clear to be sure I don't burn through?

 

[chuck hahn]

If your afraid of burning thru into the color coat before doing the decals then go with 2 coats clear. Then get the mindset that your gonna "JUST get it smooth and orange peel free' and STOP!! LOL. And even at that it doesnt have to be absolutely perfect as far as orange peel being dead smooth and non existent. Get it smooth as you can dare and the following clears over the decals will lay very well for you.

 

[nvr2old]

Thanks for the tips. I think I will use a clear coat under the decals just to be safe. I tend to be a little heavy handed with sanding and buffing as I've found with my powder coating. Can I use more than 3 or 4 coats of clear to be sure I don't burn through?

It's basically what you feel comfortable doing. If you have 3-5 coats of black base coat, it's the same as having a couple of coats of black and a couple coats of clear. I'm just saying you can save a little bit of money (clear, which is pricier then black) by just spraying the black before the decals. As Chuck mentioned, just get the base coat smooth with the 600 and you should be fine. It's also how "buried" you want the stripes to be under the clear as to how much you need to spray. If you want them to be completely smoothed away, spray 3-4 coats, let it dry for a day or so, sand with 600 again with a block, and then spray another few coats. That will be more then enough coverage to safely cut and buff. The factory never used that much clear and always left the decal edges that you can feel. I always took it further for a more custom touch to make those edges go away. Up to you..factory-correct..or custom finish.

 

[jsandidge]

Thanks again. I do feel more comfortable now. Was hoping to spray today, but found some cracks in the side covers when I sanded the side covers bare. There were several layers of rattle can paint over the factory paint, so I didn't notice. I drilled a hole at each end of the cracks to keep them from spreading any further. Then, dremeled out a v-notch along the crack and filled with jb plastic weld. Waiting for that to dry now.

 

[chuck hahn]

I suggest using a good epoxy primer or equivalent on the plastics as well as the tank. Reason being that over the years oil leaks , gas leaks, battery acid etc etc that could have came into contact with the plastic seeps in and makes the paint wrinkle and crack even a day or so after youve sprayed and think its great. Do 2 primer coats and sand them lightly between coats.


I say the tank too because why deal with two different primers..mix up a batch and shoot everything the same.

 

[jsandidge]

Thanks Chuck. As for sanding the primer, what grit do you use, and do you do it wet or dry?

 

[chuck hahn]

I used 400 wet /dry on my parts. Wet sanding wherever possible is the way to go. It makes the paoper last longer and it just does an all aorund smoother finishiung job that going dry. least thats been my experiences. If the Primer goes on real smooth, then all I would do is get those red scrubbie pads like youll see at Auto Zone or Oreilleys and just gently buff it a little.

One thing about wet sanding is it will also highlight defects if you look down the wet parts and reflect the light off them. Basically, what you see when its wet is what its surface is gonna look like when its painted and cleared. Follow me???

 

[bobgroger]

Thanks Chuck. That is the way I was leaning. How long should the first coat of clear cure before sanding?

If you are using 2k Urethane clear, the longer you wait the harder it is to sand. Try after 24 hours. If it still seems a little gummy and clogs the paper wait another 12-24. After 3 or 4 days it will be like sanding bumpy glass. Tape up the edges so you don't burn through. Use a foam pad to wrap the paper around.

 

[bobgroger]

Almost forgot, Catalyzed Urethane contains Isocyanates, ie generates Cyanide gas. Wear a GOOD respirator, have plenty of air circulation. If you blow filtered air in to the booth it reduces the dust as opposed to sucking it out.