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R/R Sense wire

  • Thread starter Thread starter 1_v8_merc
  • Start date Start date
1

1_v8_merc

Guest
Okay, I'll make it short and sweet.

82 gs650g
Brand new Stator and R/R.
I start the bike, 13.8v at Idle
But as I rev up to 4k Rpm's, the voltage goes Down, to 12.8 - 13v.
Also, the R/R unit is very warm, after running for 2 or 3 minutes.

Do you think my sense wire location is bad?(tail light)
Or the R/R is bad?

Opinions?
 
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You can hook up the sense wire directly to the battery to eliminate voltage drop in the tail light circuit, but I suspect you'll find the issue of the voltage folding back caused by bad connections in the harness or fuse box.
 
I figured he could fish the rest from all your links.

Teach a man to fish... ;)
 
1_v8_merc said:
Okay, I'll make it short and sweet.

82 gs650g
Brand new Stator and R/R.
I start the bike, 13.8v at Idle
But as I rev up to 4k Rpm's, the voltage goes Down, to 12.8 - 13v.
Also, the R/R unit is very warm, after running for 2 or 3 minutes.


Opinions?
Click to expand...
A good Shindengen should not get very warm- I'd suspect your unit is defective. Obviously, do the tests. Last year when my stator failed (short to ground) the only effect on my Shindengen was voltage readings jumping around as the R/R tried to compensate - no sign of heat.
 
tom203 said:
A good Shindengen should not get very warm- I'd suspect your unit is defective. Obviously, do the tests. Last year when my stator failed (short to ground) the only effect on my Shindengen was voltage readings jumping around as the R/R tried to compensate - no sign of heat.
Click to expand...

If the resistance is high enough that the current flow (R/R to electrical from the + )makes the battery look fully charged (as sensed by the R/R ) and the R/R will stay in a short mode for a high percentage of the time causing more heat than what you would expect.
 
posplayr said:
If the resistance is high enough that the current flow (R/R to electrical from the + )makes the battery look fully charged (as sensed by the R/R ) and the R/R will stay in a short mode for a high percentage of the time causing more heat than what you would expect.
Click to expand...
Sure, but I suspect the Shindengen being designed for the bigger honda stators would not get very warm even with a suzuki sized stator producing flat out. v8 merc's voltage drop off at 4k seems very odd.
 
tom203 said:
Sure, but I suspect the Shindengen being designed for the bigger honda stators would not get very warm even with a suzuki sized stator producing flat out. v8 merc's voltage drop off at 4k seems very odd.
Click to expand...

same problem; high resistance. As the current increases there is a higher voltage drop between R/R and Battery causing the voltage at the battery to drop.
 
I bought this for testing purposes. magnet wire is slightly bigger gauge, resistance phase to phase is still about .9 ohm. I'd suspect it could put out 50% more than suzuki. I have no idea what Sabres redline at.
 
OK, when you said "bigger", I was thinking "higher capacity". My mistake. :oops:

Yeah, the Honda does have a larger diameter, and it's wider, but that does not mean any higher capacity. In fact, if it uses larger wire, it will have fewer turns on the poles. That will give lower voltage, but higher current is possible. What that means out on the road is that you will have to spin the engine a bit faster before it finally charges the battery, but once it's charging, will be more likely to handle heated grips or a heated vest.

.
 
In this case "bigger" does mean higher capacity. The greater physical size of the honda stator allows more turns of wire on the stator poles (assuming only slightly bigger magnet wire gauge); plus the thicker honda stator means a stronger magnetic field spins by those wires generating more voltage per wire turn. Seems likely that honda was after a little more output at low rpm. Of course, the problem is what to do with the surplus power as revs go up; the compufire and the sh-775 seem to solve that problem. Hopefully, someone (guess who ?)will actually test a sh-775 and report results and we can rejoice!
 
Okay, Diode test only flows One way, like it should!(did all 12 steps)
But I'm only getting .440 on average....I know it should be .500-.800 right?
Is that a problem?

My Stator tested fine with the Ohms test.
(I didn't test the AC Voltage test yet.)
 
about .44 for forward voltage drop- sounds low compared to ones that I've tested, all were .58 to 63. You sure your multimeter battery is OK. In any event, you have a R/R that's getting real hot real quick. The diode check only applies about 3 volts DC to diode where as stator is throwing alot more at it- my understanding is that these rectifing diodes usually fail open circuited (don't conduct) while a zener in regulating portion could fail either way. I was hoping you had just tried another R/R
 
tom203 said:
about .44 for forward voltage drop- sounds low compared to ones that I've tested, all were .58 to 63. You sure your multimeter battery is OK. In any event, you have a R/R that's getting real hot real quick. The diode check only applies about 3 volts DC to diode where as stator is throwing alot more at it- my understanding is that these rectifing diodes usually fail open circuited (don't conduct) while a zener in regulating portion could fail either way. I was hoping you had just tried another R/R
Click to expand...

A lower forward voltage drop is better as it means the R/R will not run as hot. The forward voltage drop (of two diodes) times the stator current is to large extent going to be the total power dissipated in the R/R. Which R/R are we talking about here v8_merc?

I was hoping he would have followed the stator pages and ran the modified Phase A tests. :(

The R/R might be OK and he is just suffering from bad connections. If the voltage drops between battery and R/R are significant (compared to 0.25 v maximum) then you know he is pushing current and it is bad connections. If there is no voltage drop and the voltage is low then it is moire likely the stator.

Having watched this scenario over and over, I think the stator pages Phase B and C especially the R/R tests are beyond most peoples skill set.:(

The Quick Test provides a very good start(which was completed by v8_merc) , and in this case the next step should have been the Revised Phase A. This will indicate whether there is current being supplied by the R/R using the dirty connections as built in current sensors. Voltage drop indicates current and also explains why the voltage to the battery remains low.

Make sure you do these two tests and report the results for diagnosis.
STEP #2 MEASURE POSITIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP
STEP #3 MEASURE NEGATIVE LEAD VOLTAGE DROP


Link to Revised PHASE A of Stator Pages:
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3970459/stator-papers-phase-a-pdf-may-13-2012-10-43-am-55k?da=y
ORIGINAL_STATOR_PAGES
Click to expand...

Depending upon what connections are bad, putting in another R/R could yield a similar of same result as with the original R/R therefore it is inconclusive. Granted if you have an plug and play replacement R/R that uses the identical connector, it might be worth the shot to parts swap the R/R, but as a general rule I would not go out of my way to do that test.
 
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tom203 said:
about .44 for forward voltage drop- sounds low compared to ones that I've tested, all were .58 to 63. You sure your multimeter battery is OK. In any event, you have a R/R that's getting real hot real quick. The diode check only applies about 3 volts DC to diode where as stator is throwing alot more at it- my understanding is that these rectifing diodes usually fail open circuited (don't conduct) while a zener in regulating portion could fail either way. I was hoping you had just tried another R/R
Click to expand...

I'm just going to get another R/R.
I just wanna sell this thing, get it out of my garage.

In addition to the Diode test, I tried the Ohms test.(same process)
According to Steve, I should be getting "OL" one-way, and Resistance when I flip the Leads around. However, that's not happening, I'm getting Resistance on all 12 tests, clear as day.
Weird or what?
 
If he swaps out the R/R with another and gets same result, he gets to keep digging! I sorta figured he'd rather just try something simple!
I thought .44 low for conventional power diode unless its a Schottky type- I know my meter gives poor readings with weak battery
 
tom203 said:
If he swaps out the R/R with another and gets same result, he gets to keep digging! I sorta figured he'd rather just try something simple!
I thought .44 low for conventional power diode unless its a Schottky type- I know my meter gives poor readings with weak battery
Click to expand...


As you say there are many variables and we don't really know what the test is indicating other than a forward bias of the diode (assuming revere bias is OL which was not posted). With only 3V or less I would not try and conclude more.
 
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