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R/R Test Reveals Reverse Flow??

  • Thread starter Thread starter crash-harris
  • Start date Start date
C

crash-harris

Guest
Today I tested my R/R which I'm thinking is the reason why I'm not getting spark. I set 2 different digital multimeters to the "diode test" setting and put the positive lead on the red lead of the R/R and the negative lead to the yellow wire and got nothing (one meter read OL and the other read the constant 1 on the left of the screen). Now, when I reversed it, THEN I got something, which is where I NOT suppose to get anything, correct? Screen read .03 bad R/R correct?
 
Hi,

Basically, diodes allow electricity to flow in one direction, but not the other. If you are testing a diode with a multimeter and get continuity in one direction (+ to -) but not the other (- to +), the component is behaving properly. However, it's been my observances that these r/r tests are not conclusive and you must test the entire charging system to be sure. In other words, if the stator has the proper output but the r/r does not, the r/r is bad.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
 
I can't really test the entire system since the bike isn't running. She'll turn over fine, but I don't have spark.

I also don't have a battery which is why I'm having these problems to begin with. When I got the bike and got it to run, I was jumping it with a 40 amp battery charger and like an idiot, I forgot to turn off the charger when I got the bike started. It ran up to about 4000 rpm's, sputtered a lot, then the left side ignition coils puked (I realized what I had done at this point). I tried it again after removing the coil just to make sure everything was ok, but I turned off the charger this time and removed the clamps, she idled fine for 15 or so seconds and then died. No spark. When I tried to see if the right plug was getting spark, and both plugs with the new coils, the starter butten did nothing. The controls needed replaced anyway since they were old and trashy and I got the new controls hard wired in last week and the button now works, but still haven't tracked down the no spark deal.

I took off the stator cover today (and drained the oil as well, needed it done) and visually inspected the stator, LOOKS good, but I didn't get around to test it for sure.It just seems strange that the R/R will read in the reverse direction that it should, and not read in the correct direction.

Btw, your site helps a lot! Been reading through the stator papers to try to nail this thing down and I'm *at least* close (and closer than I was!).
 
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Bike should spark just fine with the reg disconnected, I don't think it is your problem but give it a try. Check for 12 volts at the coils
 
I'll to that fist thing tomorrow then when I get into the garage. Could I have fried the stator or the ignitor? The stator is what I'm worried about, but it did run on one cylinder strongly, just for a short amount of time until it died.
 
Diodes are checked in reverse, that is black meter lead to the red of the RR and the red meter lead to each of the three yellows one at a time will allow you to check the diodes. At least the first three.


Reverse this and connect the red meter lead to the ground wire of the RR and connect the black meter lead to each of the yellow wires and you can check the other 3 diodes. There are 6 total. Should read about 500 - 700 ohms this way, and should indicate an open If the leads are reversed. As Basscliff points out, they are one way devices.

Bad RRs are common on Suzuki bikes, I offer Honda RR replacement kits but currently I am out of stock.

Here is a diagram that might help explain how the RR works, It is for the Honda with a separate sense wire that measures the voltage of the bike but the Suzuki uses a similar arrangement as far as the diodes are concerned

HondaRRconnections-1.jpg
 
My R/R only has one yellow wire? The stator papers stated to disconnect the R/R from the bike to do the test, like not on the bike at all? Or did I not test it correctly?
 
YOu might have white/red or white/blue wires too. Basically if the wires are not red or black they are stator leads and connect to the diodes inside.
 
Ok, that's good then because I got about the same readings for those ones. I was confused about the stator papers telling me to test it with 3 yellow wires off the R/R so I tested those ones. I'm going to go ahead an get a used stock R/R from 4rcFed just so I can get the bike running until I can get a Electrosport stator and R/R. Going to have to get this this running soon since my demening State Farm agent put me up as high risk and dropped my truck (as of this upcoming August 18th even though both of my speeding tickets and 2 deer where in the quiet little car, can't feel it or hear it, it puts me to sleep and I have to drive it 160 miles every day....).

Eventually, I plan to replace all the replacebles on the bike, clean the carbs soon, strip it and paint it. Then later on I'd like ti hardtail it and make a sweet little bobber out of it. But one thing at a time right? :D

Does anyone have the like to the multi-page thread showing what other R/R's will work with our bikes? I have a boneyard nearby and the R/R is probably a longshot, but just incase the new used one I'm going to get goes south before I can get the Electrosport one.
 
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I also don't have a battery which is why I'm having these problems to begin with. When I got the bike and got it to run, I was jumping it with a 40 amp battery charger and like an idiot, I forgot to turn off the charger when I got the bike started. It ran up to about 4000 rpm's, sputtered a lot, then the left side ignition coils puked (I realized what I had done at this point).
Click to expand...

Running and starting a bike in this way is a sure way to damage your electronic components and even the charging system. My take is never ever start a bike designed to have a battery without one, especially not with a battery charger on 40A boost!:cry:
 
With some of those "boost" chargers, they get their starting power by upping the voltage. :eek:

Depending on their capacity, when you connect the booster to your bike, your r/r will try desperately to regulate it, sometimes unsuccessfully.

.
 
And remember, if you do boost off of a car battery, LEAVE THE CAR OFF!!!! A Cars Alternator WILL cook your R/R
 
Not sure it was made perfectly clear to you, but your charging system components (R/R, stator) are not directly connected to your ignition system. You should be able to diagnose and repair your ignition problem with just a fully charged battery (use a trickle or 2-amp charger).

Once you have the ignition problem squared away and the bike is running, then check your charging system. You really need to have the bike running to check the charging voltage. Simply check the voltage at the battery terminals, if they don't go when the revs go up, you have a charging problem. Then go thru the stator papers.
 
I actually would have used a battery, but the only one I had was from a parts truck with a large hole in the top of it and the one from my brother's car with a busted cell. I realize 100% that I was an idiot in leaving the charger on the bike while the engine was running (wishin' I hadn't done that, lol). I started with 2A on the chargerm but not enough juice to roll the starter over.

So if a fried componant in charging system isn't to blame for the lack of spark, what may be? Coils are new used, goods ones from Ryan, even have NGK boots on them, but still no spark. Ignitor? Watching the video that I took of it running on one cylinder, I realized that at the moment I found out that the rod for the clutch was held together by JB Weld and it boke. I tried to put the bike in gear and it lurched and died, of course. I'll have to go fiddle around with it some more this afternoon. It would have really helped if my moron brother and the guy that had it before him didn't spray paint everything including the wires.
 
Think that a faulty starter relay that will still allow the motor to crank could be at fault?

I just used jumper cables from the battery on our golf cart to test things. Cart battery read 27.5V, relay read the same, tested about 23V to the coil harnesses for either side with the key on.

And how do I test the coils?

The bike didn't do anything, even make a noise when I hit the starter button with the battery hooked up, but I hooked the charger up just for a sec to see and it clicked and finally rolled the engine over so I disconnect the charger and got straight on here.
 
crash-harris said:
I just used jumper cables from the battery on our golf cart to test things. Cart battery read 27.5V, relay read the same, tested about 23V to the coil harnesses for either side with the key on.
Click to expand...

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE ... tell me you didn't connect your bike to a 24 volt golf cart battery??? :pray: :pray: :pray: :eek:

Many of the somewhat delicate electronics on the bike will tolerate up to 15 or 16 volts on occasion, but 24 volts is somewhat out of the question.

Anything that was turned on when you tried this, ignitor, headlight, tail light, instrument lights, etc., is likely to be fried, so plan on a bit more diagnosing and replacement.

.
 
Nope, it's a 12V battery. The cart is gas powered, yet it read out 27.5V with the multimeter set on 200V~
 
crash-harris said:
Nope, it's a 12V battery. The cart is gas powered, yet it read out 27.5V with the multimeter set on 200V~
Click to expand...


Unfortunately a 12V battery cannot put out 27.5V, but two 12v batteries in series usually do that and thus give the 24V Steve is referring to.

If you are talking about a single 12V battery measuring 27.5V then you may have a faulty multimeter and will never find an electrical fault in that way. You may also be using the 200V~ AC range and need to switch to the DC scale on your meter.
:eek:
 
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Hehe, that would explain it. I suck when it comes to multimeters. I will try it again today on the V--- settings.

But how exactly to I use the multimeter to check and see if I'm getting 12V at the coils? Do I probe the end of the plug wire and the ground or what?
 
crash-harris said:
I actually would have used a battery, but the only one I had was from a parts truck with a large hole in the top of it and the one from my brother's car with a busted cell. I realize 100% that I was an idiot in leaving the charger on the bike while the engine was running (wishin' I hadn't done that, lol). I started with 2A on the chargerm but not enough juice to roll the starter over.

So if a fried componant in charging system isn't to blame for the lack of spark, what may be? Coils are new used, goods ones from Ryan, even have NGK boots on them, but still no spark. Ignitor? Watching the video that I took of it running on one cylinder, I realized that at the moment I found out that the rod for the clutch was held together by JB Weld and it boke. I tried to put the bike in gear and it lurched and died, of course. I'll have to go fiddle around with it some more this afternoon. It would have really helped if my moron brother and the guy that had it before him didn't spray paint everything including the wires.
Click to expand...

As stated by others before, running the bike without a battery is a BAD idea. Don't EVER do it, not even for a little while.


One of the things the battery does is act as a very big sink for all the spikes in the electrical system.
A way to think about it is as follows
(this is simplified and glosses over a lot, but is still kind of usefull ...)
The stator is trying to put out up to 70 or 80 volts or more.
The battery drags it down a lot, to about 15 or 16 volts or so.
That would be too much and would "boil" the battery out, so the regulator shorts out the stator for part of each cycle. The controls in the regulator are set so that the amount of shorting it does keeps the average battery voltage at around 14.4 volts or so. But if you look at the voltage with a scope, you will see it bounces up and down half a volt or more from the average as the R/R does its thing.

If you remove the battery and run the system, there is nothing evening out the voltage.

When the R/R is shorting the stator, the voltage will be near 0.
When its not the voltage will swing WAY too high. (I have no idea how high, but will guess up to 20 volts or more.)

So basically the voltage goes bouncing between 0 and 20 volts constantly.

I'll guess that you cooked your ignitor
 
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