R/R toasted or grouding problem?

[J_C]

Wiring Diagram for reference:
http://socal-letsride.com/storage/GS1100L/Wiring.JPG

I have a drain on the battery. It's a constant .75 volt drain, identified by plugging multimeter leads in series with battery (-) and the wires that connect to that terminal. I have learned amps play a significant role in this, I dont know how, and dont much care, because After 2 weeks my battery has again gone from 12.6 or so to 10.8, so it's an issue.

I have isolated the problem to past the 15amp fuse of course, as the others wouldn't be hot all the time. This is what I've done to isolate it.

1. Unplug red wire to fusebox. Draw disappears. Plug back in.
2. Unplug ignition switch. Draw remains.
3. Unplug red wire to rec/reg. Draw disappears. Plug back in.
4. Unplug rec/reg black/white wire to frame ground. Draw disappears.

Eh? Am I at a dead end where there's come kind of grounding issue? I thought if I kept following the citcuit until unplugging it no longer resulted in the draw disappearing I would be able to find the issue. But I went all the way to ground. Is my rectifier regulator just always passing that voltage through? Or do I have some kind of other grounding problem?

 

[KiwiGS]

Is it the OEM style r/r or do you have a Honda one or something. Some Honda r/rs are abit parsitic (ones with a sense wire).
Cheers

 

[Guest]

It's those damn horns. ;-)
Have you tested the R/R? Have you done the Stator papers? Isn't this the last step of this long process?

 

[J_C]

Haha. Is there ever a last step?

No, I haven't done the stator papers. It seems to be recharging fine while it's running (well, mostly, it actually charges less with its at 4000 than at idle, but its still above 13.5 if I remember correctly). It's the drain thats a pain in the ass

 

[Guest]

Did you run the ground wire from the R/R to the negative battery post?

 

[bakalorz]

The amps matter

The amps matter

Wiring Diagram for reference:
http://socal-letsride.com/storage/GS1100L/Wiring.JPG

I have a drain on the battery. It's a constant .75 volt drain, identified by plugging multimeter leads in series with battery (-) and the wires that connect to that terminal. I have learned amps play a significant role in this, I dont know how, and dont much care, because After 2 weeks my battery has again gone from 12.6 or so to 10.8, so it's an issue.

The amps matter enough that you have to care ...

Repeat your test with the meter hooked up as above with the meter set to the biggest amp setting it has.
Assuming you don't get a reading, repeat it one setting smaller, and keep decreasing the range until you get a reading or get to the smallest range.

Come back and report what reading you get.

---

What you were doing before (taking a voltage reading with the meter in series) really doesn't tell you anything.

With a "perfect" meter, you would probably read 12 volts if there is ANY leakage whatsoever.

With a real meter, the reading is highly dependent on the internals of the meter, but anything significantly less than 12 volts would seem to indicate to me that there is only a tiny tiny tiny amount of leakage (probably from the R/R diodes (which would be normal, and fits with the rest of your symptoms))

Based on the limited info so far, I would guess that your problem is NOT a parasitic drain.
I'm guessing that you have a normal, insignificant drain which is hundreds or thousands of times too small to hurt/drain your battery.

BTW, what kind of meter (analog or digital) are you using.

I have isolated the problem to past the 15amp fuse of course, as the others wouldn't be hot all the time. This is what I've done to isolate it.

1. Unplug red wire to fusebox. Draw disappears. Plug back in.
2. Unplug ignition switch. Draw remains.
3. Unplug red wire to rec/reg. Draw disappears. Plug back in.
4. Unplug rec/reg black/white wire to frame ground. Draw disappears.

Eh? Am I at a dead end where there's come kind of grounding issue? I thought if I kept following the citcuit until unplugging it no longer resulted in the draw disappearing I would be able to find the issue. But I went all the way to ground. Is my rectifier regulator just always passing that voltage through? Or do I have some kind of other grounding problem?

 

[J_C]

Martin,

Thanks for the advice. I will repeat the test as you stated tomorrow. I'm kind of hoping that there is a drain. Something needs to explain why this battery (I believe identical to the one in my SV) drains so much more quickly.


This is my meter:

 

[82Shafty]

J_C

What was your meter set at when you measured voltage?

I went home and checked mine and I only have .063 parasitic drain. That's right, six hundreths of a volt, not even a tenth of a volt.

As far as ohms, it was very high infact, 17.8M connect lead to lead off of the battery (battery disconnected). 200M setting on the meter in order to read it.

Amps, nada, even on the finest setting double checked with two different DVOM's.


Have you specifically checked the r/r per the resources?

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=122868&highlight=voltage+drop

Still no resolution?

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=123895&highlight=regulator+rectifier+test

when you when through the Rectifier test, did they check out... See phase C

http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfault.htm

these guys go in depth about diode checks, though the little meter you have may not pick it up.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...670&highlight=regulator+rectifier+test&page=2

I'm sure if you have any other questions, Bak seems pretty up on electrical testing.

 

[J_C]

82, I thought that the readings I got back meant the problem was very very small. But since my battery is still draining, it's obviously an issue. Since I don't have the luxury of having it on a tender all the time, I need to minimize the battery discharge in the week or two between turning it on.

When I did thre voltage reading the meter was set to 20v.

Thanks for the other tip. I will do phase C of the stator checks this evening as well

 

[bakalorz]

J_C

What was your meter set at when you measured voltage?

I went home and checked mine and I only have .063 parasitic drain. That's right, six hundreths of a volt, not even a tenth of a volt.

What I was trying to explain before is that this measurement really doesn't mean anything. JC's leakage may well be less than yours if you are using an analog meter.
It all depends on the effective resistance of the meter.

J_C

As far as ohms, it was very high infact, 17.8M connect lead to lead off of the battery (battery disconnected). 200M setting on the meter in order to read it.

Amps, nada, even on the finest setting double checked with two different DVOM's.


Have you specifically checked the r/r per the resources?

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=122868&highlight=voltage+drop

Rereading that thread, JC does NOT have enough of a drain to be a problem.

J_C


Still no resolution?

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=123895&highlight=regulator+rectifier+test

when you when through the Rectifier test, did they check out... See phase C

http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfault.htm

these guys go in depth about diode checks, though the little meter you have may not pick it up.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...670&highlight=regulator+rectifier+test&page=2

His meter has a diode test function at the 5:30 o:clock setting.

J_C

I'm sure if you have any other questions, Bak seems pretty up on electrical testing.

JC, From all I have read here, Parasitic drain is NOT the problem, look elsewhere ...

It is possible that the battery has an internal short, or is just ruined.
You may have other charging issues.

There is not enough info to tell what the problem is.
There is enough info to rule out parasitic drain.

 

[J_C]

OK thank you Martin. I'll go through the entire set of stator papers this weekend and document my results. Maybe someone might see something in them that I don't.

Hopefully it's not the battery. I'd hate to have to buy a new one.

 

[bakalorz]

82, I thought that the readings I got back meant the problem was very very small. But since my battery is still draining, it's obviously an issue. Since I don't have the luxury of having it on a tender all the time, I need to minimize the battery discharge in the week or two between turning it on.

When I did thre voltage reading the meter was set to 20v.

Thanks for the other tip. I will do phase C of the stator checks this evening as well

Ummm... I guess you use a tender sometimes?

Does the battery ever bubble on the tender ?

or a different issue:
Do you ever leave the tender connected to the battery but not plugged into the wall ? 8-[

 

[J_C]

It's an AGM battery, so it never bubbles. I put it on the battery tender for the night maybe every other week or so. It did have one period of about 3 months where it sat in storage without being on a tender.

Because I have to run an extension cord from my apartment, out the door, off the balcony, and diagonally down to the bike below, if it's not charging I remove the tender.

 

[J_C]

I tried to test the r/r today via the stator papers part c. Completely removed the r/r from the bike. Tested resistance from red to yellow. 1. Then I tested from black to red. 1. I think I have a busted multimeter. Will buy another one from kragen or something and try again this weekend.

 

[bakalorz]

I tried to test the r/r today via the stator papers part c. Completely removed the r/r from the bike. Tested resistance from red to yellow. 1. Then I tested from black to red. 1. I think I have a busted multimeter. Will buy another one from kragen or something and try again this weekend.

With the meter you have, you shouldn't be testing resistance.

You should be using the diode test function (between the 200 ohms setting and hfe)

for each wire pair you measure two times and you measure them in different "direction"s each time ... for example with the red and yellow wires:
1st measurement --- red multimeter lead on red wire, black multimeter lead on yellow wire.
2nd measurement --- red multimeter lead on yellow wire, black multimeter lead on red wire.

on each pair, one direction should give you a value, and the other should say 'out of range' (I'll guess thats the "1" above)

 

[J_C]

Sorry, I'm an idiot. I meant that I was using the diode function. And while using the diode test function, I got 1s going in both directions. I'm going to buy a slightly nicer auto ranging meter today from kragen, read the manual, and then test again as well as performing the stator papers.

The meter I'm going to get also has a "battery load test" no idea what it is, while read the directions hoping it helps identify potential problems with the battery as well (as you were mentioning, internal short etc)

 

[bakalorz]

Sorry, I'm an idiot. I meant that I was using the diode function. And while using the diode test function, I got 1s going in both directions. I'm going to buy a slightly nicer auto ranging meter today from kragen, read the manual, and then test again as well as performing the stator papers.

The meter I'm going to get also has a "battery load test" no idea what it is, while read the directions hoping it helps identify potential problems with the battery as well (as you were mentioning, internal short etc)

The meter you have should be adequate if its working.

Check that you haven't blown the fuse inside the meter, you will need to remove two screws to do it. They may have even provided a spare if you did

The battery load test is likely to be for 1.5v alkaline cells (AA, AAA, C, D cells)

If the meter is working, 1s in both directions means the RR diode is blown open. I would find it unlikely that all 6 diodes are blown though ...

Radioshack has diodes at 2 for 99 cents as the following part #s: 276-1101, 276-1102, 276-1103, or 276-1104 if you want a known good diode to test your meter.

 

[J_C]

Awesome, thanks Martin. I'll hold off on buying the meter until I've checked the fuse on this one. Many thanks.

 

[J_C]

ok, I tried to fix the old meter, it was toasted. So I bought a nice new auto ranging one to check out the r/r. These were my readings using the diode function:

Red mm to red r/r, black mm to yellow wires: OL, OL, OL (??)
Black mm to red r/r, red mm to yellow wires: .476, .476, .486
Black mm to bw r/r, red mm to yellow wires: OL, OL, OL (??)
Red mm to bw r/r, black mm to yellow wires: .473, .485, .484



For the crap of it, I went back to step 1 of the stator papers and took some voltage readings.

Idle: 14.08
2500: 13.8
5000: 13.2

According to the stator papers, the system is "perfectly ok." Why do I feel like not everything is ok?

 

[bakalorz]

ok, I tried to fix the old meter, it was toasted. So I bought a nice new auto ranging one to check out the r/r.

Since the old meter was toasted (what was wrong that it was toasted by the way) its hard to know if the info you gave before was valid.

I still doubt that there is a leakage problem, but to be thorough you might want to check the key off CURRENT drain again.
Start at the highest current (10 amp ?) and work your way down

These were my readings using the diode function:

Red mm to red r/r, black mm to yellow wires: OL, OL, OL (??)
Black mm to red r/r, red mm to yellow wires: .476, .476, .486
Black mm to bw r/r, red mm to yellow wires: OL, OL, OL (??)
Red mm to bw r/r, black mm to yellow wires: .473, .485, .484

That is what you should get

For the crap of it, I went back to step 1 of the stator papers and took some voltage readings.

Idle: 14.08
2500: 13.8
5000: 13.2

According to the stator papers, the system is "perfectly ok." Why do I feel like not everything is ok?

I would like to see at least 13.5 at all RPMs, but where you are at is marginally ok.

If you haven't done it yet:
Run a direct wire from the regulator ground to the battery negative.
Replace the stator bullet connectors with spade type connectors.

Also, clean all the connections in the fusebox, and any connectors in the positive path between the r/r and the battery.

I harp on that stuff because in some cases it can fix marginal or non-functioning charging systems.

After all that stuff, come back and we'll see where you are.