ram air/ direct flow air

[Reaper0001]

after viewing the thread "no more pods"
i decided to start designing new ways to either ram the air in to the carbs or build a more direct flow air line to the carbs
here are three design pictures of the air box ideas i had (not really boxes)
this is two diffrent designs of a ram air system idea
the only problem with the filter sticking out the side is that when you are stoped you could hit it or bump it with you leg and well break it off or bend the filter

here we have the direct air flow set up
more power less drag on the get off more top end

will post more pictures as the plumbing begins to take shape!

 

[KiwiGS]

You could always just put the head on backwards, like they used to do with old trumpys and some other more modern bikes......

 

[rich001]

Hi reaper,

Enjoy this sort of ''development''. Just a suggestion for a starting point - look to where the current sports bike manufacturers take their air from. Most seem to take and use the high pressure area around the headlight or fairing. Anywhere that you can collect this fast moving air and direct it into the carbs.

You even use the standard air box with appropriate ducting.

Looking forward to what you can come up with. :-k

Richard

 

[Guest]

Hi reaper,

Enjoy this sort of ''development''. Just a suggestion for a starting point - look to where the current sports bike manufacturers take their air from. Most seem to take and use the high pressure area around the headlight or fairing. Anywhere that you can collect this fast moving air and direct it into the carbs.

You even use the standard air box with appropriate ducting.

Looking forward to what you can come up with. :-k

Richard

They [ the manufacturer's] pressurize the fuel bowls through the ram air so it richens the fuel mixture when you get going fast enough for the ram air to really start working. Because if you add ram air and jet as a non [forced ram air ] system you will be lean when you get it wound up and working. Look at a later model Gixxer with ram air, Suzuki did it with the 2000 gsxr 600

 

[bubby]

i like this as soon as i read this i thought hyper charger, why stop at 1 you could put 1 on each side of the engine and run 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRcy2QPahgQ

 

[bubby]

heres some on a m109 http://www.thundermfg.com/store/images/products/large_309_70220-1.gif

 

[Reaper0001]

the thing is i do not like the blower
i would have to take a closer look at all of the space under my bike and frame
if you look at those bikes with blowers they have V twin engienes allowing to place the blowers in a place that is out of the way more forward under the tank
the crabs that we have if the air flow comes in from the side the front of the blower would be behind you legs!!!!
unless i could use tubular steel and mount the blower somewhere else like on the right side adjacent to the exhaust?
if that is possible i need to find a way to run the plumbing so it is not in the way of the function of the bike
then i could run my vacuum lines straight to the air collecter box i was thinking of adding a scoop pan under the exhaust for air collection in stead of coolant but my pipes are going to be in the way of that
also what do y'all think of the direct port idea?
its out of the way i can hook up the vacuum lines to it and it would give you pretty good power gains

 

[MisterCinders]

What about scoops along the side of the tank that force air into a filtered box?

 

[rich001]

Good point hj.

What about jetting the top end slightly rich to compensate for the ram air effect. I don't think you could ever attain high pressure so it wouldn't need to be excessively rich. It obviously would mean that at lower speeds it would be running rich down low in the revs.

Further mental meanderings : what about if a small air box was made that fully enclosed the carbies - as in a blow through super/turbo setup. This would fix the fuel issue but raise other potential problems. The gravity fuel feed would be working against any pressure in the air box - maybe need a small fuel pump???? Also the advantages of a larger air box ( eg throttle response down low, smooth air flow etc etc) would be lost.

Just adding to the complexities that is the infernal combustion engine. :evil:

Richard

 

[Reaper0001]

i like the box idea but i was thinking of connecting all the vacuum lines together and attaching them to my airbox system
that would work but when i take off the tank to do simple tuning i would have to move the air catcher ill keep thinking let me know what else you guys have in mind i am interested in what y'all know

i will be drawing other pictures later and see what yall think!

 

[Steve]

I love all the creativity that is happening here, but if your main goal is simply more power, ...
they make big-bore kits and high-compression pistons that are proven to work with very little effort.

.

 

[rich001]

Steve, you are being very sneaky. I have had years of doing things the hard way and you come with the ''easy'' solution.

I'm a wake up to your evil plan. You want to get twice the power improvement with half the effort. Well I'm not going to fall for it.

I've got my good eye on you.

Richard

 

[Spyder]

Reaper, the "ram air" would creat an unstable/unpredictable lean condition. That's why I got rid of my pods in the first place and though of my under seat filter. (not that I "invented" it)
Everything but the pilot circuit would have to be substantially richened up. The mixture would be at best be intermittent. At least on a street bike. Racing on the other hand. I can see this working better on a race only bike. Drag, or course bike.

Just my thoughts on it...

The set up we discussed on my bike works very well. Ridden in pretty windy conditions and couldnt feel any mixture changes. I would recommend people buy it from you if you made a good setup. If you like I can get the specs for the intake port, and part number for the K&N I used.

 

[Reaper0001]

the intake ports would be nice on specs
but i need to combine and crunch my numbers and see what size intake pipe i need!
also steve can you get me the specs on pistons rods and stuff\

 

[7981GS]

Although the idea of ram-air is valid and can improve performance quite a bit,
As with turbo-charged/super-charged vehicles and modern ram-air intake tracts on motorcycles,
they have the advantage of a computer and mass air flow sensor to adjust fuel pressure and fuel charge as well as timing advance under almost all conditions.
Doing all of that with a carburetor is much more difficult.

Eric

 

[Baatfam]

Ram air is a myth because it does not exist, for the following reasons:

- Air is incompressible at any automobile speed (I.e. speeds less than Mach 0.3). meaning that the kinetic energy of the air cannot be used to compress the air and raise the static pressure.

- The ?ram air? nozzles commonly employed on automobiles tend to be the wrong shape. A divergent nozzle is required for ram air. Straight-profile scoops cannot provide a ram air effect.

Select one of the two types of intakes, warm air, or cold air. Beyond that its just about looks."

Quoted from The Ram Air Myth by Dave Rodabough

 

[rich001]

Hi bob,

I'm not sure where to start with Dave's assertions. Let's just say I do not agree.

Bob, what are those 2 holes below the headlight on the 2001 Triumph TT600?

I am not sure what peeves me so much about that quote. It just does.

Richard

 

[Guest]

Ram air

Ram air

How bout this to Dave's assertions.
1) Stick your hand out of a car window that's doing 120 mph. Tell me if the kinetic and static energy are the same. Where kinetic means moving and static means not moving, I'm thinking that the pressure on your hand is going to be greater at 120 mph than it would be if you stick your hand out while sitting on your couch.
2) At ambient pressure air is compressible at any speed. If it wasn't it wouldn't be possible to move in an airtight room.
3) First sentence says ram air is a myth. Third sentence says ram air requires a divergent nozzle. A divergent nozzle is required to produce a myth?

 

[Reaper0001]

!he is saying that once it hits the tubes of the pipes and the slides of the carbs the kinetic energy is then turned in to static energy but their is not enough wind force generated to sufficient static energy pressure
7th grade stuff dude

exnay the ram air idea im convinced
back to the original idea a more smooth intake system for the gs with a cone filter on the end will begin fabrication soon
i want to build mabey a fiberglass housing for the air filter under the seat so it can hold the larger cone filter
anyone know what are some good medium sized air filters
is spectra ok what about any other brand or should i stick with k&n best idea
thoughts?
NOT DOING TURBOS sorry guys

 

[rich001]

Okey dokey reaper,

I think we got distracted.

I believe you need to consider 3 main areas:

1) intake to airbox . Lots of choice there. Without going back to the ram air it probably doesn't make much difference what you choose.

2) air box. Conventional wisdom dictates a large air box ( up to 10x capacity of engine ideally) to give the engine access to a large body of still (ish) air.

3) Carb intakes. Wisdom dictates long runners help torque, Some assert that smaller cross section tubes gives greater velocity ( dare I say ram effect) at a potential for greater frictional losses - your call on that one.
.
Good luck on fitting that into the area currently occupied by the manufacturers work of art.

Watching with much interest on your deliberations. :-k

Richard.