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Really hard starting when cold

  • Thread starter Thread starter spyug
  • Start date Start date
S

spyug

Guest
I'm still having issues with the 550 which I believe are still carb related. She is absolutely a pig to start when dead cold. Choke on full and crank and crank for at least 5 minutes before there is any sign of life. She runs fine when warm and now idles at 1100 rpm, but I am noticing a bit of a gas smell when I come to stops ( mixture screws are at 2.5 turns out and she was vacuum synched about a month back). She will restart fine when warm too.

To recap, carbs are cleaned and rebuilt with fresh o-rings and there are fresh o-rings on the intake boots, the coil relay mod has been done and I'm around 12+ at the coils, the valves were adjusted about 500km back and the charging system is working to spec with a battery new in April this year.

I am thinking this is all very strange since with everything done, short of fresh plugs and plug caps, she should fire right up cold or not.

Any ideas before I go and spend some more money?

Cheers,
spyug
 
I'm with the other Scott, I have always heard the most obvious sign of valves in need of adjustment is hard starting, especially when cold.
 
Gas smell at stops is interesting. Have you checked for gas coming out of the carb vent hoses? Could be gas getting past the float valves and flooding the engine while it is sitting. Which could be caused by a faulty fuel tap and/or a worn/incorrectly seating float valve or two. Or possibly the float level set too high (which will richen all mixtures across the range) although that shouldn't affect cold starting.

May be pull a plug after cold cranking for 30 sec and see if its wet (fuel fouled). At least you'll determine if its too much fuel or not enough.

If it doesn't appear to be fuel supply, look at ignition side. Check the removed plug earthed against the head for a fat blue spark. Worn plugs might cause hard starting.
 
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Well I did do an adjustment about 500km back when I first got it. There were just a few that were tight. If anything, they are all on the loose side now.

I have not experienced this on any of the last 3 or 4 bikes I've "played" with. Each had tthe valves adjusted, carbs redone and the coil relay mod. Each started easily. I'm scratching my head with this one.

I'm going to ride the bike as much as I can until the end of the season then I'll have another closer look.

Thanks for the input folks.
Spyug
 
Cranking for 5 mins has got to be killer on your battery and especially your starter.
 
old_skool said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and many will grab their saws and start cutting, take that 550 and push it of a cliff into a deep hole of water, I mean submarine deep:eek:. I think there are more threads and post on this forum for whatever various problems dealing with the 550's and smaller cc bikes, once you get up to 750 and higher, they diminish drastically. Now I haven't done any real hard research on this, and it's probably because they sold many of the 550's and many are still alive...push it over, and get a nice 750 or 1000 if you want to stick with the chains, and the 750's aren't too big you can't mod them to your pleasing. Or...adjust the valves and ride on:D
Click to expand...

Spyug had a mint 750 running and no issues, however he wanted to downsize in cc's and lose some of the weight of the bigger bikes, so he found a 550....

I don't think he intent right now is to go back to a bigger bike, at least not right at this moment....

by the way, I have a 750 and it's got issues as well.....:D

I think any 30 year old bike is gong to have problems and that is why we are here, to work through them......

if one wanted a trouble free bike, and I just might be there for next season, I will go and grab the Ninja 300 FI and just ride, and not worry so much about wrenching each and every day, or once a week.......

just saying...
 
ahhhhh I see.....

sometimes the written word loses the humor unfortunately.....

and your right he has had some issues this year with the bikes, but he has managed to get most of the kinks out, just as I have....we were just talking about this today and the lack of saddle time we both have had this year due to wrenching....

hopefully next season brings us more saddle time, and much less wrenching

I am afraid spyug is in for a treat soon, he wants to do heated grips as well, hope that goes well....LOL
 
What is the voltage at the coils when your having trouble. If you havn't done the coil relay mod it may be worth looking into what the voltage is at the coils.
 
dr_fosg8 said:
What is the voltage at the coils when your having trouble. If you havn't done the coil relay mod it may be worth looking into what the voltage is at the coils.
Click to expand...

not sure if the question is for me or spyug...

but the coil relay mod has been done by us both...
 
GateKeeper said:
but the coil relay mod has been done by us both...
Click to expand...

:o Whoops, I went back and re-read the thread and I completely missed the metion of the coil relay mod in the first post.

Well if the carbs are good and the valves are good and the coil voltage is good...

Maybe the choke circuit is too rich, or too lean even? I have found my bike starts easier when cold by opening the choke only about half way, fully open it is more difficult to start.
 
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Back to your problem How old is the battery ? I had a GS1000E would crank for 2-3 minutes also. The battery was just not up to doing its job. Replaced the 14ah battery with a 12 ah and it started up fine when cold.
Nothing wrong with a 550 great little bike....
 
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Thanks for all the input folks.

She certainly has been putting me through the ringer this year and at this point, I am wishing I had not sold the 750, which as GK says ran like a Swiss watch. Oh well.

About the only thing I haven't done is play with plugs, caps and wires so that will be next. Its also interesting about trying to start with only half choke. I wondered about that this morning so I think I'll check that out too.

I do really like the bike when its working its a hoot and does go like a scared cat but I'm not up to fully trusting it yet. In the back of my mind I feel it will let me down somewhere far from home. I never had that feeling with the old 750, I knew it would get me there and back everytime. The new owner, recentley, even told me he is impressed by how well it runs and how dependable he finds it.

I guess I'll just keep fiddling and maybe by next season it will be rock solid too.

Cheers,
Spyug
 
I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY 750 MINUS THE GAS SMELL. MY BOWLS DRY UP SO QUICK (of fuel). PUT ON PRIME A MINUTE NO PROBLEM.
I KNOW YOU HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE , BUT JUST THINKING WITHOUT ISSUES ON OTHER BIKE-BIKES MIGHT BE SOMETHING YOU OVERLOOKED.
 
Are we sure this isn't an airbox, petcock/vacuum tube problem? Does it start better if you pour a little gas on the air filter?
 
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At this point, I am not clear on anything I'm afraid. I've done all of the standard stuff and it does run fine when its warmed up. By rights, it should fire right up hot or cold. At least 3 of the last 4 bikes did when similarily fixed.

I think the gas smell might be a clue of some kind and I guess I should be trying to find out why its running rich. I have the mixture screws at 2.5 out and now wonder if that has anything to do with it.

I will try and start it again and will pull plugs to see if they get wet. Maybe as some say, its pumping a bit too much gas and the plugs are having a tough time igniting things.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks friends.
Spyug
 
dr_fosg8 said:
What is the voltage at the coils when your having trouble. If you havn't done the coil relay mod it may be worth looking into what the voltage is at the coils.
Click to expand...
Plugged passages in the float bowls is where I'd start looking. I would suspect you've already checked to make sure the choke cable is lifting the plungers already...
 
Yup, those brass tubes that reach down into the float bowl are pick up points for the choke circuit. The carb rebuild tutorial has some detailed info on these, check pages 50 & 51.
 
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