Recommendations, boring, ballancing

[Graham]

Looks like all you need now is some machine work. Machine the GR sleeves bottom for a height of 102.35. And bore the GS block (barrel) to 83.99 or 83.98 to fit the GR sleeves. GR sleeves and GS block equals same deck height.

 

[Guest]

Yup, I did some pricing around today and wow its getting expensive.

One shop wanted $80 an hour for 4 hours + They were really hesitant as well.

Another independent shop said its in my best interest to have it done by a shop that does allot of this type of work and wouldn't take it on for less than $500

And the place that will most likely do the work will be this gentleman:

http://www.ural.ca/

Haven't been quoted a price (wasn't in the shop today) but He claims " in a Russian accent" that he will beat anyone's price

I'll find out Monday.



I made a calculator in excel and at 78mm bore, every 1 mm of gasket increase is 4.8cc's. This got me thinking. I have some 2024 T3 aluminum in various thicknesses, I'll make some base spacers out of that stuff If the Compression ratio needs to be adjusted

Check this out GR on the left Stock 400 on the right ( cell phone pic, sorry)

 

[Guest]

Dropped parts off yesterday, Waiting for news.

Pistons should be in tomorrow.

Starting to make gasket shims out of aluminum. 1mm and 0.5mm.

I'll post updates and pics as things develop.

 

[Guest]

Customs... Feel the burn

Customs... Feel the burn

All I have to say is WoW

Pistons were shipped through UPS by JE pistons and then I find out there is a brokerage fee of 107.28.


Where did this come from ??



I called UPS to find out if they were going to ship it to my door or to the local post office and then the Rep mensioned

"Just so your not surprised, There is a $107.28 brokerage fee"

I wouldn't have any possible way to know unless I would have called !!!

"Surprised" Ya, A bit!


It breaks down to

Cost of pistons $307.20

Cost to clear shipping 62.00 plus the cost of taxes in NS 15 % of 307.20

which is $107.28.

I called JE and they have never herd of this "customs" thing. Maybe they can help me out a bit, maybe not.


Its not the first time I've ordered from the states but it is the first time with a big courier like UPS (JE's only choice i guess) USPS and Canada post has never cost me duty in the past.


Oh well

Chalk it up to experience I guess...


End of rant

pistons are here, that's at least enough to make me smile

 

[gearhead13]

All I have to say is WoW

Pistons were shipped through UPS by JE pistons and then I find out there is a brokerage fee of 107.28.


Where did this come from ??



I called UPS to find out if they were going to ship it to my door or to the local post office and then the Rep mensioned

"Just so your not surprised, There is a $107.28 brokerage fee"

I wouldn't have any possible way to know unless I would have called !!!

"Surprised" Ya, A bit!


It breaks down to

Cost of pistons $307.20

Cost to clear shipping 62.00 plus the cost of taxes in NS 15 % of 307.20

which is $107.28.

I called JE and they have never herd of this "customs" thing. Maybe they can help me out a bit, maybe not.


Its not the first time I've ordered from the states but it is the first time with a big courier like UPS (JE's only choice i guess) USPS and Canada post has never cost me duty in the past.


Oh well

Chalk it up to experience I guess...


End of rant

pistons are here, that's at least enough to make me smile

I NEVER have anything shipped UPS or FEDEX from the us, unless I feel like getting screwed. I have paid $2-300 in brokerage fees at times. My $500 piston kit ended up costing me $800
If they dont ship USPS, I dont buy

 

[Guest]

I NEVER have anything shipped UPS or FEDEX from the us, unless I feel like getting screwed. I have paid $2-300 in brokerage fees at times. My $500 piston kit ended up costing me $800
If they dont ship USPS, I dont buy

Ditto to that! UPS fleeces us big time! I simply avoid them like the plague.
If it's via USPS, that's fine. Otherwise I avoid it.

 

[Guest]

Made some progress today.. Mostly gathering measurements from the new pistons and comparing to the old.

Looks like I'm going to have to increase the valve recesses towards the center.


Or shim the base high enough to avoid any valve contact and in turn lower the compression.

Here are some pics

 

[Guest]

Progress

New pistons and I made a base shim

Well today was a good one.

Cylinder barrel was bored.

I made a base shim 1.15mm thick, just to try and it came out pretty good,

Baked the barrels and dropped the sleeves in,

Still have to trim a bit off the bottom of the sleeves have the head planned and cylinders bored.

 

[Vishnu]

All I have to say is WoW

Pistons were shipped through UPS by JE pistons and then I find out there is a brokerage fee of 107.28.


Where did this come from ??



I called UPS to find out if they were going to ship it to my door or to the local post office and then the Rep mensioned

"Just so your not surprised, There is a $107.28 brokerage fee"

I wouldn't have any possible way to know unless I would have called !!!

"Surprised" Ya, A bit!


It breaks down to

Cost of pistons $307.20

Cost to clear shipping 62.00 plus the cost of taxes in NS 15 % of 307.20

which is $107.28.

I called JE and they have never herd of this "customs" thing. Maybe they can help me out a bit, maybe not.


Its not the first time I've ordered from the states but it is the first time with a big courier like UPS (JE's only choice i guess) USPS and Canada post has never cost me duty in the past.


Oh well

Chalk it up to experience I guess...


End of rant

pistons are here, that's at least enough to make me smile

Just my .02$, Youre right UPS is crapola. I susoect that they dont observe the NAFTA rules properly. All automotive products ( I thought) are supposed to fall under NAFTA. Especially those produced in the USA.

You can probably collect the duty back but not the brokerage fee. Forgive my words but UPS are a**holes. I had the same problem when getting pistons for my project.

 

[Guest]

You can probably collect the duty back but not the brokerage fee

How would I go about doing that ?

I can prove they were made in the USA.

 

[Guest]

Pics

Pics

More progress,

I'm wondering If I should file the side of the sleeves to fit into the case or file the case to fit the sleeves.

Its only about 1 mm

More pics to come



Also thinking of what to do with the finish on the cylinders.

Paint, Powder, spray...

 

[Guest]

You can probably collect the duty back but not the brokerage fee.

I doubt that VERY much. We call these duties ... but they are taxes ... and everything imported is taxable. Even if you had used USPS or Fedex, taxes would have been calculated ... but not brokerage fees.
Solution? Chalk it up as experience and avoid UPS like the plague. Been there, done that...

 

[Guest]

What would be a good baseline for jetting ?

I'm running a stock 117.5 main right now

120,
122,

more?

 

[tkent02]

What would be a good baseline for jetting ?

I'm running a stock 117.5 main right now

120,
122,

more?

Probably less. The bigger displacement draws more air through the carburetor which in itself draws more fuel. For instance, the VM 26 carbs on the GS 750 uses 102.5 main jets, the same carbs on a GS 1000 uses 95 mains. It will certainly take some experimentation with such a drastic change in displacement. Are you running CV style carbs? I guess they may react quite differently to a large change in displacement. What I'm trying to say is talk to someone who knows this stuff to get a better educated guess.

 

[Guest]

Thanks tkent02

They are the stock BS34SS CV carbs without any modifications. It has the stock airbox/ filter and stock headers with slip on's.

• main 117.5
• pilot 42.5
• needle jet P-1
• jet needle 5D69-4
• air jet 0.6

I'm just thinking of the first run with it to break it in properly,

I'd like to be a little rich and keep it a little cooler.

But I don't know how significantly rich its going to be.


At first I was thinking of a larger jet size but your right it does draw in a larger volume of fuel and air.

My earlier thought was more air, requires more fuel.


Now that I've looked at the chart in the fuel section I see that even the larger displacement bikes run as low as 112.5 However they also run a 45 pilot.

More research to do

 

[Graham]

Thanks tkent02

They are the stock VM34SS CV carbs without any modifications. It has the stock airbox/ filter and stock headers with slip on's.

• main 117.5
• pilot 42.5
• needle jet P-1
• jet needle 5D69-4
• air jet 0.6

I'm just thinking of the first run with it to break it in properly,

I'd like to be a little rich and keep it a little cooler.

But I don't know how significantly rich its going to be.


At first I was thinking of a larger jet size but your right it does draw in a larger volume of fuel and air.

My earlier thought was more air, requires more fuel.


Now that I've looked at the chart in the fuel section I see that even the larger displacement bikes run as low as 112.5 However they also run a 45 pilot.

More research to do

Larger displacement with out increasing carburetor size will increase the venturi affect and may actually increase the suction on the jets. Your stock jetting should be a little rich. I?d also go one step colder on the plug first trip out.

 

[Guest]

thanks again Graham, you've been a great help through all of this.

Its getting closer and closer, Still a few gaskets to order and make and have the cylinders bored.





The stock plug call's for a

DR8ES-L

that would make it a DR8.5ES 8.5 being the heat range

And through research I've found that a

DR8ES or DR7ES would be hotter

And a DR9ES would be the coldest available by NGK. I'll source some after the weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbR75wq9nmM&feature=related

 

[Graham]

thanks again Graham, you've been a great help through all of this.

Its getting closer and closer, Still a few gaskets to order and make and have the cylinders bored.





The stock plug call's for a

DR8ES-L

that would make it a DR8.5ES 8.5 being the heat range

And through research I've found that a

DR8ES or DR7ES would be hotter

And a DR9ES would be the coldest available by NGK. I'll source some after the weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbR75wq9nmM&feature=related

I always understood a colder plug helped with preignition issues on high compression ratio engines. Good vid.

 

[Guest]

Well I'm dropping off the cylinders to be bored and have the head resurfaced a slight bit.

What should I use for a clearance spec?


This is what i have in JE's instruction leaflet.

Sport compact 2.500"-3.650" piston size (63.5mm-92.71mm)

min clearance should be 0.0030" to 0.0036" (0.0762mm-0.09144mm)



However, On the manufacturing sheet for the pistons it recommends 0.0025" (0.0635mm) but says its just a guideline




Also what should I use for a ring end gap ?

there is an application table that lists:

Application | Top ring | 2nD Ring |oil ring|

High performance. Street-Strip| Bore x 0.0045" | Bore x 0.0050" |0.15"min
Street Moderate Turbo/Nitrous| Bore x 0.0050" | Bore x 0.0055" |0.15"min
Late Model Stock | Bore x 0.0050" | Bore x 0.0053" |0.15"min
Circle Track / Drag Race | Bore x 0.0055" | Bore x 0.0057" |0.15"min
Nitrous Race Only | Bore x 0.0070" | Bore x 0.0067" |0.15"min
Blown Race Only | Bore x 0.0060" | Bore x 0.0060" |0.15"min


Thanks






Note: I Add a few extra things to my posts because I like to refer to them when I don't have any information right on hand


New Piston weight is 234 Grams
With stock base gasket piston is 1.5mm taller than cylinder deck
Should be 1.8mm lower to get a CP of 12.5:1
Head combustion chamber is 16cc's approximatly measured. (15.54 Calculated by reverse engineering CP ratio and knowing cylinder volume)
Volume of head gasket is 5.4cc's @ 78mm
Head + head gasket = 21.4cc's
CP ratio is 20:1
Base gasket required to lower it to 12.5:1 is 2.1mm
Or I could oversize the head gasket to 80 to get it to 12.2:1

Lots of things to play with

 

[GregT]

Ask for .0035 piston clearance....for ring gaps set it up between .013 and .015 in.
When setting barrel height it's always easier to make base gaskets in different thicknesses.
Remember you need .040in minimum piston to head clearance - you may have to machine the piston crowns to achieve this particularly where the bore overhangs the original head area - these areas become squish bands.

Then the fun starts with trial asemblies, dialling in cams and checking valve to piston clearance.....Worry about finished CR only once all the clearances in the chamber are OK.