Regulator Rectifier Gets Very Hot -HELP

[Mark@TO]

O.K. gentlemen Now that I'm pretty sure I have the problem figured out I'm not sure who to buy the replacement parts from.

Some people are suggesting Rick's. I called them to enquire about their RR and stators and basically they are OEM replacements. It does not appear that they are of any better quality than the Suzuki parts.

Electro Sport boasts that their stators and RR's are better than the factor parts and are designed improve on Suzuki's poor charging system set up.

The Suzuki stator sells for $190.00 Cdn and both Rick's and Electro Sports sell for around $130.00 US. By the time I pay the currency conversion, shipping and duties I'm really only saving about $30.00

However if Electro Sports RR & stator are superior in quality then it is well worth it to buy from them.

Posplayr I know that Electro sports parts are cheaper than the factory parts however do you think that they are of better quality?

Thanks again for the help.

Mark

 

[Nessism]

Electrosports and RM Stators stators look identical which makes me suspect they are sourced from the same suppler in China. Ricks are wound here in the states I believe. I'd either get an OE stator or a Ricks.

 

[posplayr]

Electrosports and RM Stators stators look identical which makes me suspect they are sourced from the same suppler in China. Ricks are wound here in the states I believe. I'd either get an OE stator or a Ricks.

I just reinstalled a Electrosport stator in my ED running with a FH0012A FET based regulator. The bullet connector in positive lead between teh fuse box and teh battery (+) terminal was degrading so I was having a hard time charging at 14V at the battery.

I developed an oil leak after my first 250 mile ride ; it was my starter o-ring but at the time did not know. I pulled the startor cover again to see that the Electrosport stator was already getting brown from heat on the stator where it doesn't sit in the oil bath. The part in the oil bath was still nice baby blue.

Makes me wornder if:

a.) is the Electrosport is over doing thier design in trying to increase the curent flow, or

b.) the FET based R/R is casing more stress or

c.) the 0.5 v drop in regulation is causing additional stress to the stator (due to over regulation).

After only 250 highway miles (in the twisties) doesnt make me feel to comfortable this is a 100K mile stator

 

[posplayr]

O.K. gentlemen Now that I'm pretty sure I have the problem figured out I'm not sure who to buy the replacement parts from.

Some people are suggesting Rick's. I called them to enquire about their RR and stators and basically they are OEM replacements. It does not appear that they are of any better quality than the Suzuki parts.

Electro Sport boasts that their stators and RR's are better than the factor parts and are designed improve on Suzuki's poor charging system set up.

The Suzuki stator sells for $190.00 Cdn and both Rick's and Electro Sports sell for around $130.00 US. By the time I pay the currency conversion, shipping and duties I'm really only saving about $30.00

However if Electro Sports RR & stator are superior in quality then it is well worth it to buy from them.

Posplayr I know that Electro sports parts are cheaper than the factory parts however do you think that they are of better quality?

Thanks again for the help.

Mark

I dont think the electrosport R/R is particularly good. The Honda is probaly better if you find a way to deal with the sense wire.

If the cost differential is not that bad I might just go for an OEM stator.

There are some other options buying used Yamaha stators I think. Do a cross reference.

 

[Mark@TO]

Well based on what you gentlemen are saying and the fact that I have a brand new Suzuki RR I think I just order a Suzuki Stator. They are only $15.00 more than Ricks once you factor in shipping duties and taxes. That way there if I have any problems with the RR or Stator Suzuki can't blame the aftermarket one as being the problem.

However based on what I read in the stator papers I thought that the Electrosport stuff was superior in quality due to the fact that the RR's regulate all three phases as opposed to just one.

Thanks again

Mark.

 

[posplayr]

Well based on what you gentlemen are saying and the fact that I have a brand new Suzuki RR I think I just order a Suzuki Stator. They are only $15.00 more than Ricks once you factor in shipping duties and taxes. That way there if I have any problems with the RR or Stator Suzuki can't blame the aftermarket one as being the problem.

However based on what I read in the stator papers I thought that the Electrosport stuff was superior in quality due to the fact that the RR's regulate all three phases as opposed to just one.

Thanks again

Mark.

I guess it is plausible that Electrosport regulate all 3 phases. The GS1100E's did that as well by 1982 (maybe earlier). I think my 81 GS750E only regulated one leg which is very poor. Since regulating all three phases is aboyt 30 years old even for Suzuki, i dont think I would call it "superior quality".In fact I had a NEW Electro Sport R/R that has such bad crimps in the connector the R/R would over heat.

I just ordered a Kawazaki Stator. I think they are lower capacity so not as likely to burn up with high RPM

Chef1366 has had one in for some time now with a Honda R/R and it looks great

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1219611&postcount=16

 

[Mark@TO]

Humm, that's interesting. I never considered using a lower powered stator from a different bike. Perhaps I should look into having a local shop rewind one of my old stators such that it will have fewer watts in terms of output power. Does this sound like a good idea?

How much lower should I go? I think the factory stator puts out 230 watts however I'm not sure at what RPM that would be.

So much to learn and so little time.

My first stator (the one that came on the bike from Suzuki) lasted for 48000 km. The second one which came off of a parts bike I think lasted around 30000 km total. 11000 I put on it and I?m guessing it had 20000 on it when I put it on the bike.

In general if you have good grounds and good connections on the positive side of your harness how long will the average Suzuki stator and RR last assuming they are factory parts changed at the same time. I know this is a very speculative question however I?m looking more for a best guess, all things being equal. Judging by what you guys have said I think I have been pretty luck so far.

Thanks

Mark

 

[posplayr]

I have been talking to one of the engineers here at work. I was under the misperception that although the generator's voltage output was proportional to RPM, I was assuming that it was also designed to go into saturation as the flux density increased. This is generally true for DC motors with sperately exceited fields, and not so for Permenant Magnet motors. The Voltage just keeps increasing.

Off hand if anyone has measured the open look voltage as a function of RPM we could confirm that. What that means is that total power whether in the stator, R/R or the load is going up to the square of RPM.

V=K*RPM
P=V^2/R = (K^2*RPM^2)/R

If we figure a typical GS requires about 250 watts at 2500 RPM, then we are getting 1000 watts at 5K RPM, 4000 watts at 10000 RPM.

The point of all this is that the stator sizing is designed to meet a rated load at a nominal RPM, the power climbs well beyond the requirement at high RPM's. If it is at sustained RPM's then the stator goes into thermal overload and can fry the stator.

You could go into stator redesign exersize, or just get one of the Kawi's. Bill have been ruining one on his 16V 1100 for about a year.

Humm, that's interesting. I never considered using a lower powered stator from a different bike. Perhaps I should look into having a local shop rewind one of my old stators such that it will have fewer watts in terms of output power. Does this sound like a good idea?

How much lower should I go? I think the factory stator puts out 230 watts however I'm not sure at what RPM that would be.

So much to learn and so little time.

My first stator (the one that came on the bike from Suzuki) lasted for 48000 km. The second one which came off of a parts bike I think lasted around 30000 km total. 11000 I put on it and I?m guessing it had 20000 on it when I put it on the bike.

In general if you have good grounds and good connections on the positive side of your harness how long will the average Suzuki stator and RR last assuming they are factory parts changed at the same time. I know this is a very speculative question however I?m looking more for a best guess, all things being equal. Judging by what you guys have said I think I have been pretty luck so far.

Thanks

Mark

I had planned to very

 

[Nessism]

If the Electrosport R/R with the extra current capacity is a concern, why not get an OE or Rick's stator?

 

[posplayr]

If the Electrosport R/R with the extra current capacity is a concern, why not get an OE or Rick's stator?

As far as Stators I think I'm fairing far worse than Cliff, it is just spread out over move time as I have been doing so much work to the ED. It looks like I have about 9K cumulative on the ED. When I got the bike teh PO said he had spent $600 at a dealer to fix his charging system with OE parts. When I has the stator cover off for a starter clutch problem I found a nice shiney stator that looked to be in excellent condition.

It finished smoking itself a few miles back because it was a cripsy critter.

Now the new electrosport got a brown spot after so few miles it is very disconcerting. In fact it may be my imagination but it seems like there is more AC noise which wuld indicate imbalance in the 3 legs contributing to the noise. Maybe I've already developed a short.

While the Ricks is something else to "try", I'm not hopeful as Cliff has been frying them all. Bill claims his Kawazaki stator still looks fresh after 1 year. I have to admit most of the pictures you see of used Kawasaki stators on ebay look fresh and not burnt.

The theory is the Kawasaki stators for 550/750's have lower output power as they ran at higher RPM and with lower loads for those bikes. The FET R/R will boost the output voltage more at idle and the total power is limited in the 5k-7.5K rpm.

See this post for details

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=1221084#post1221084


http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?p=1221084#post1221084

 

[johnw]

GS Stators & regulators

GS Stators & regulators

OK guys, so what became of all of this ..?

I just acquired a 1984 GS550L with only 10,000 K's , mint condition ,
but serious charging problems and I was about to buy the electrosport.

This stream would seem to indicate that neither Suzuki's OEM or electrosport or Ricks are a solution ...?

What is , or ended up being the solution for this faulty design by Suzuki ?

New Rider, need advice. jwarden9@cogeco.ca

Thanks, JW

Waterdown, Ontario

 

[posplayr]

OK guys, so what became of all of this ..?

I just acquired a 1984 GS550L with only 10,000 K's , mint condition ,
but serious charging problems and I was about to buy the electrosport.

This stream would seem to indicate that neither Suzuki's OEM or electrosport or Ricks are a solution ...?

What is , or ended up being the solution for this faulty design by Suzuki ?

New Rider, need advice. jwarden9@cogeco.ca

Thanks, JW

Waterdown, Ontario

CHARGING SYSTEM_HEALTH

THE_ULTIMATE_SOLUTION

 

[posplayr]

Why not sense when the "excess" power is available, and then power one of these


- JC

This is a regulator function; where you gonna get it form?

 

[posplayr]

I made the statement generic as I figured you'd have an idea.

One possibility is to keep track of the amps used in the system and define an "optimum" to keep all components happy.

If system drops below this threshold, send power proportionally to the Peltier to maintain optimum load.

And, yes, this is similar to the R/R function when it heats, except this method will contribute to system health due to the cooling effect on the R/R. Peltiers are pretty tough to burn up and are cheap.

The Peltier can go on anything, but the R/R is close, about the right size/shape, and can benefit from the cooling effect.

Why a Peltier? Well, we know that shunting power just makes useless heat, and I don't know of some other electrical component someone would want on a bike that would work sometimes and at various levels- all out of the control of the rider.

Now....

It would be great if we had a cylindrical Peltier (similar in design to a capacitor with separate plates internally) that would fit in our oil fill holes like a dipstick to provide at least minimal cooling to the oil. (Think oil dipstick heaters, but cooling instead).

This would reduce heat in the stator and oil, both due to load and direct cooling.

Eh...probably too complicated for a 30 yr old bike anyways...just figured while we were talking theory

- JC

The Peltier is an interesting device , but I dont see the benefit over using the SERIES R/R unless you want be able to switch on a drink cooler on the highway in the summer so the drinks are cold when you stop.

You could design a shunting type R/R that shunts current to the Peltier, but that is a whole other design problem that the SERIES R/R is much better at and already exists.

 

[posplayr]

A cold drink would be nice- mini fridge! Now I have a reason to remove the airbox!

But, seriously, benefit? Well, cost for one. Load sense and COTS Peltier. Easy to retrofit- externally.

Secondly, it's an alternative. The BEST solutions often come from comparing pros and cons of different solutions.

- JC

The Peltier is not the issue it is the regulation.

And I'm moderately familiar with "Performance Based Architectural Design"

I coined the phrase and have been a evangalist for the last 20
years.